0:44

Welcome to the Davenport. Hi, Jamie.

Jamie: 1:15

Hi, Guy.

Guy: 1:16

How are you doing this week?

Jamie: 1:17

Good. I'm so glad that it's Friday.

Guy: 1:20

Happy Friday. Yeah, I've most of you know already, we record these on Fridays. And it's a bright spot in the week. We have a good week. But this makes it better.

Jamie: 1:29

And you're all vaccinated.

Guy: 1:32

Yes. Yes. Finally.

Jamie: 1:35

Monica goes tomorrow. So we're almost all there getting there. Light at the end of the tunnel.

Guy: 1:41

Yeah. Well, everyone, our listeners, thank you for joining us. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please do so. And you can click I think a button to get those automatic downloads. So each week when they come out on Tuesdays, you can get the latest episode. And please leave us a review. Not just like the stars review, those are great. But Jamie does have her goal of 50 written reviews.

Jamie: 2:08

We got a couple of this week I was so thank you so much. They're like Happy 50th. I'm like - not yet. I have another month, right?

Guy: 2:17

So we have a month to get... What about 25 reviews? So let's let's get those in here. But thank you. For everyone who does leave review. Thank you for your kind words, your encouragement, you know, the DM's the text messages. We love it all. And we appreciate you as listeners, and we appreciate your support. And if you have topics for a upcoming podcast or a question, send them over, we happy to respond and even incorporated into the show. Yeah, I mean today, which brings us to today. That's what we're doing.

Jamie: 2:50

Yeah. And so I you know, I just I appreciate it because I think it takes courage to be vulnerable to ask the question. And this sweet listener sent a message last week and the more I thought about her question, the more I thought, Oh, we need to unpack this question in an episode, because it's what some questions you can answer in a five or 10 minute conversation. Other questions really deserve? Let's unpack this because I think she is not alone in what she's asking. And so I'm just gonna read directly her sweet message says, Hi, I think this is the way to request a topic. I love the podcast. And I'm always grateful for the advice you both share as a newlywed, which has its own set of challenges, right? I'm ad libbing now. Because I'm going off script. Yeah. But she as a newlywed. I'm thinking, Oh, so they're young, married. And, and so you're kind of going through that transition right of expectations and reality. So that's in my mind. She says, as a newlywed, I've been so grateful for all the communication skills It teaches as I want to build a strong foundation with my spouse. I wanted to ask if you could do an episode on validation versus reassurance. I have anxiety. So seeking reassurance is always so tempting, but usually not helpful. At the same time. My love language is words, which really is words of affirmation. So validation is often much needed. I'm not sure how to distinguish between the two and how to ask for one while limiting the other. For example is the question how do I look looking for reassurance or validation? Which I really does appreciate it. These thoughts from this young newlywed.

Guy: 4:31

Yeah, she's not just throwing a question out there. She's thought about this.

Jamie: 4:34

Yes. And she sees how it's impacting her life, and if it's something that could potentially impact her relationship with their spouse,

Guy: 4:42

yeah. And just for context for you, no one else has a question. I mean, that came in through our Instagram, dm through Instagram. Okay, so you can dm us. You can email the podcast directly at TheDavenportPodcast@gmail.com or message DM us, just through Your Facebook app.

Jamie: 5:02

So I think first let's go into some definitions a little bit. You know,

Guy: 5:06

I love that you always start with the definition, solid foundation.

Jamie: 5:09

Because sometimes we throw words around, right. And so, first of all, what are words of affirmation? I mean, what do you think of when you think of words of affirmation?

Guy: 5:18

Compliments. Overly simple.

Jamie: 5:22

Okay, but that's okay. I'm going to read that definition. Actually, words of affirmation are any spoken or written words that confirm support, uplift and empathize with another person in a positive manner. words of affirmation is one of the five love languages that you study with. Gary Chapman. So he wrote this book about the five love languages and words of affirmation is one of those. And so

Guy: 5:48

Is this an exercise that you by reading the book you figure it out? Or do you do like an assessment or

Jamie: 5:53

There's an assessment that you take and it kind of lets you know what your love languages and the different love languages are physical touch words of affirmation gifts, acts of service, quality, time, quality time. And so for sure, this young newlywed realizes that her love language is words of affirmation. And I think why I appreciate this is this is awesome. My husband's love language is words of affirmation, but it is not mine. And so the way that I feel love isn't when he's telling me he loves me or telling me certain things. It's when he's, you know, like, Oh, I came home and the bed was made. I'm like, Oh, my gosh.

Guy: 6:36

So your's is acts of service?

Jamie: 6:37

Total acts of service. Yeah. So it's just a funny thing. So I had to learn...

Guy: 6:41

You can say I love you all you want but the dishwasher's still full.

Jamie: 6:45

Still unload it is what makes me feel loved, right? So it's really understanding. And what I appreciate about this young listener is that she knows herself pretty well. And she should feel happy about that. Knowing that she's wired that way is half the battle.

Guy: 6:58

Congratulations. So awareness.

Jamie: 7:00

Yes. Because I've worked with couples married 20 years that can't tell me what their love language is. I'll be like, how do you feel loved? I don't know. Just not like this.

Guy: 7:09

This is a conversation going on in my head right now. And like, maybe I need to read that.

Jamie: 7:13

Right? Like you can't really identify it. But part of it is really important to

Guy: 7:18

I glance over at Erin, maybe she knows.

Jamie: 7:22

It's quality food. Just kidding. But I think when we understand, well, when you understand what your love language is, then you can teach your partner.

Guy: 7:36

Sorry, that's so funny, as you're saying that. And I said Mountain Dew it totally is what Erin goes into Circle K, and gets me the polar pop, and puts the mix of blue raspberry slushie in...total love language...I'm like, she loves me. And I love her.

Jamie: 7:54

And we're going to do a whole episode on bidding. A little bit of that, like a positive bit. And and that's a little bit of the love maps to that Gottman talks about then that you're known by your spouse, right. And she knows what I like because Dave will do that after surfing. He'll bring me a Diet Dr. Pepper, because he'll stop at circle count his way home from surfing and nothing says I love you more than when he walks in and is like, hey, I got you something. So anyway, enough of that. That's another episode.

Guy: 8:21

Yeah, back to our listeners.

Jamie: 8:22

But I think you know, the fact that she's so self aware and understands what she needs is really good. what the problem is, is going back to the episode on anxiety, right? Like her anxiety is getting in the way, because she's second guessing herself. She's second guessing why she needs this. And she's kind of making up a story in our head about what it all means. When really needing that affirmation from your spouse. That's fine. As long as you understand that if he doesn't give it to you, your value has not changed. Does that make sense? Yeah. So say you say to your husband, how do I look tonight? And he's like, Meh, you know what I mean? If I have a strong sense of myself, can I pick myself up and be like, well, I like it. I'm killing it. So I'm wearing it, I'm going anyway, rather than if my husband says, Meh, and I'm like, okay, should I change clothes? should I? What should I what you know, then I start getting into this kind of, like, I'm dependent on what my spouse thinks, in order for me to feel good.

Guy: 9:30

So how does that fit with those two words? And maybe I'm getting hung up on the words there. So validation, right? versus the reassurance. Aren't they kind of the same side of

Jamie: 9:41

Yeah, I think she's thinking they're different. But let's so when you when you get your parking validated, right, when you get a parking ticket, and you know, you're gonna have to pay for parking, you will actually go somewhere intentionally and eat so you can get it validated. Like I'll go spend $30 on it. meal to get my$3 parking ticket. Yeah, validated, right. But what does that word validate? Like I got my parking validated means it proves you were there. Yeah, I'm here, and I don't have to pay for the parking. So there's a movie with JLo Richard Gere and Susan Sarandon. It's called, shall we dance? And so there's this little scene where Susan's surroundings talking to like her boss or her brother or someone. And, and the premise of the movie is she actually is suspicious that her husband might be cheating on her. And it's disturbing her when actually what her husband's doing is kind of sneaking away taking dance lessons. But if your dance teachers Jayla, you might have been I could see why that that might have been a suspicion for her. But anyway, so Richard Gere is like surprising her on this big anniversary of theirs with some dancing lessons.

Guy: 10:53

With some hop and lock?

Jamie: 10:54

No, like it was dancing with Susan's like cuz she was she wanted to dance. So he's like, surprising her right? So it ends up being this really sweet story. But at this, she's at a restaurant with this guy. And he's like, why marriage anyway? Like, what's the big deal? And her definition of marriage, to me is what this listener is saying or asking for in her relationship or when she's talking about validation. And she says marriage, and I'm totally summarizing, like, go watch. Shall we dance this weekend? And you'll know what I'm talking about. If it still exists.

Guy: 11:29

I'll just trust you.

Jamie: 11:30

Go to blockbuster.

Guy: 11:31

I'll trust you, the quotes gonna be good enough. You know I love a good J-lo movie.

Jamie: 11:39

I fully expect Guy to watch this this weekend. And she says marriage is a witness to your life. Your partner says, you were here. I saw you. And I thought that was really powerful definition of marriage.

Guy: 11:55

Yeah. And validation. Totally. As you said that I'm like that is validation. Great definition.

Jamie: 12:01

And it's not about, oh, I approve of you. It's about a witness, I'm a witness to your life of who you are. And that you don't have to be what you think your spouse needs you to be. I mean, I'm not saying in marriage, there's room for growth, and like, Hey, what do you need? And how can I help you? But a healthy relationship goes, we're gonna talk about the boundaries episode, and the anxiety episode goes back to a healthy marriage is I know where I end, and you begin. And the validation I need from my spouse is that that boundary is honored.

Guy: 12:41

You have value by being you. And I have value by being me. Right. And we're both worthy to be here. I like what you're going with that because the that validation feels very neutral and universal.

Jamie: 12:56

So when I come downstairs, and my husband's like, Oh, my gosh, you're killing that dress? I mean, that makes me feel good. Right. Like, I feel good. But that doesn't. I'm not

Guy: 13:05

That would be reassurance.

Jamie: 13:06

It's reassurance. Right, but it's not what fills my cup of confidence. I have to feel that, not my husband. And so I think what I hope the listener can take away today is that she, she can fill that cup for herself and saying, I like to go back to the SNL skit. Like, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough. And Doggone it, you know, people like me, it's the self affirmation, right. And but there's truth to that right? Of I know, my worth. And it's not dependent on what others think of me.

Guy: 13:41

So to use a metaphor here, validation is the meal. Reassurance is the dessert,

Jamie: 13:47

Right. And it's interesting, I don't know a whole lot about this listener, except that her handle for her, you know, when she reached out to us, did indicate that she's an artist. And I thought about how interesting that is, because in being an artist, you probably get a lot of validation, and a lot of feedback and a lot of criticism like, hey, this isn't good enough, or Hey, that's beautiful, or

Guy: 14:11

A lot of inputs, good and bad.

Jamie: 14:13

Yeah. And or someone purchases your work. How validating is that that someone bought something I created, right. And so I thought, Wow, she's in the perfect profession for her love language. Because but also, it could be harmful because say you get criticism or, you know, someone doesn't appreciate what you're doing. And your love language is that validation, it could feel devastating if you're not taking care of yourself.

Guy: 14:39

Yeah.

Jamie: 14:40

And so I think it's important when we look at relationships, even our kids, right, I mean, how many times have I worked with children or adults who are coming in because of the message they got as children. You're, you're so slow your so... this... you're so lazy.

Guy: 14:58

Their validation is slightly damaged or wasn't fully formed.

Jamie: 15:02

Right. That they just don't have a sense of themselves. And so they look for a lot of reassurance from people. Or they become, I have that number one saboteur of pleaser like I'm trying to please everyone. And and that wasn't didn't come from a harmful childhood is just how that inner voice for me to tell your wife. And I think some people are just wired like, I just need that reassurance that I'm okay that you think I'm okay. And needing that in your marriage is fine. I mean, as long as you don't eat

Guy: 15:34

Yeah, desserts great. If we're only basing it on reassurance though, there's some work to do to kind of look at the validation piece,

Jamie: 15:43

Right. And learning to communicate that to your spouse. So it's so important. Like, when we were first married, we had this convert while we It took us a while to have that conversation. I think I shared this on a previous episode, how we were talking about love languages after a training I had gone to. And my husband and I were talking about our love languages. And at the time, I would make his lunch every day. And I just thought, Oh my gosh, I'm killing it as a wife, right? Like I'm making his lunch. I would feel so loved if someone made my lunch for me every day. And so when he when I realized that his was words of affirmation, I said, so when I make your lunch, does that make you feel loved? And he's like, I mean, it's nice. But that's not how I feel like connected to you. Yeah. And I was like, really, he's like, I don't really care one way or the other. And I was like, Oh, so I did stop making tonight, because I'm an acts of service person. I was loving him through acts of service.

Guy: 16:43

And that wasn't positive reassurance that the lunch was appreciated, right?

Jamie: 16:47

Well, and for, for me, I was speaking my language to love him, which is acts of service. But what he needs for me is Oh, my gosh, you're killing it. You're the best. You're, you know, like, he likes words of affirmation. And that didn't come naturally to me. So I had to learn how to do that for him. Now, does he? You know, can he function in his adult life? If I don't give that to him? Yes, because he knows who he is. But when I offer that to him, it's so strengthening for us.

Guy: 17:15

Right, It's, we're dynamic enough that even if it's not quite your love language, we can learn from it. And we can appreciate and we can still function. It just went it is on point. It's that much sweeter. That much more resonates with it that much more.

Jamie: 17:32

And I think for this listener, it's gonna be communicating with her husband, like, hey, what I'm learning about myself is the way I feel loved by you is when I get that affirmation from you, not necessarily that reassurance like it doesn't have to always be reassurance, but just that, hey, I love you, I see you, I appreciate you, I see what you're trying to do and accomplish. Or I see what you do for me, or whatever that is. And it's just communicating that sometimes what where we can get in trouble to not not necessarily our listener, but other people is, we test the people we love. Like, oh, I really want them to notice that I cut and colored my hair. Right? Okay, if I don't say to my husband, I have a hair appointment at 11. It'll be like six weeks later, he's like to chew to some to your hair. I'm like, yeah, it's time for me to go back then.

Guy: 18:26

I would phrase it exact same way, which is even like a positive tone. Right? Did you do something to your hair? And like, that just sets up like, What do you mean?

Jamie: 18:35

Yeah, I mean, like, he wouldn't notice it. But then if I come down on him saying, You didn't even notice my hair. He's like, I mean, what, you know, it's

Guy: 18:45

A little bit of a trap.

Jamie: 18:47

Yeah. Like, you're kind of damned if you do damned if you don't a little bit.

Guy: 18:51

I just had this conversation with my wife yesterday about our daughter, and we had a conversation where she was getting ready for school. And there was a question about her shoes. And instead of hate sandwich shoes, they were like, well, I'm wearing these shoes. I think I want those shoes. And my response was great. whichever ones I don't care. Like, they're both great shoes.

Jamie: 19:15

Yeah. Win-win.

Guy: 19:18

And apparently that wasn't the answer. We kind of stumbled through and she kind of came back to it. I was like, it really were those shoes. And obviously you keep bringing it up. So why don't you wear the shoes that you're suggesting? Not the ones you have on? And again, it was like not met with positive response. In my mind, I think I'm solving the problem here, but it's not like landing. And so short, shorten the story. We had to take a bow shoes and she changed the card and it worked out well. But as I was telling Aaron, I was like, I felt like was a setup. Like, did she want help with the shoes or was she just verbalizing her own kind of uncertainty, and if I made a choice either way I was wrong because I was assuming She wanted help. Right? And she might have just wanted validation that there was a choice.

Jamie: 20:05

You could have just asked her right, like, hey, do you want my opinion about which ones I like better? Or are you needing reassurance that the ones you have on look great.

Guy: 20:14

So that's very clear that I that would have solved the problem, right? Instead, I was like, well, you have shoes on, like, Can we just go? Or if you don't like those, bring the other ones. Just decide, right? Do something.

Jamie: 20:25

Which probably felt a little dismissive.

Guy: 20:28

Yeah. Like, why are we talking about these shoes? Do you have them? Both there? Yeah.

Jamie: 20:31

Yeah. And for her, it felt like a big deal. Like it matters what shoes I wear. Because she's that age.

Guy: 20:38

Say that again. Because that was that was a great if I just been clear and asked her. Do you want help on deciding the shoes? Or do you need...

Jamie: 20:44

Or do you need some reassurance that the ones you have on look great? It's just and and I think when you and and for your daughter, she's just young, that you have to help her understand what is it that you're asking

Guy: 20:56

That's what Erin said. She might not even know what she was asking.

Jamie: 20:59

Yeah, but in when you're married sometimes. And sometimes we don't, either when we're married, or adults or whatever. But sometimes we do. And we are testing our partner or our boyfriend or girlfriend or significant other. And we're like, I'm gonna see if they say anything about my new outfit, or I'm gonna see if they say anything about my hair, or how dinner Yeah, or that I cleaned up or whatever it is, right? That's testing the our intention isn't pure, and we're never ever going to get the validation or reassurance we need if we do that. Does that make sense?

Guy: 21:31

Yeah, cuz you're you're setting it is a setup. It is a setup. So if you say what do you think about these shoes? Oh, they're fine. Oh, they're just fine. Yeah. Oh, you don't like them? Or you don't like them? No, I didn't say that either.

Jamie: 21:44

And see how we start making up the story like you don't like them... they're ugly. The rabbit hole.

Guy: 21:47

Right. That story starts. It's like picking a fight,

Jamie: 21:52

kind of Yes. And I think I want to read something about acceptance. From the book codependent no more, which is like the Bible about codependency it's written by melody.... I think it's Beattie.

Guy: 22:04

I think we have another definition. We need here codependency but go ahead. Yeah,

Jamie: 22:07

yeah, we'll come back. But she just says in her book, acceptance is the ultimate paradox, we cannot change who we are until we accept ourselves the way we are. So once we accept ourselves the way we are, we can start to work on changing parts of ourselves that we want to right, yeah. So if I can accept that I am, who I am, that I feel the feelings that I feel, and that I have done what I have done, if I can accept it, whether I like it all or not, then I can accept myself, I can accept my shortcomings, my self doubts My poor self esteem at times. And when I can accept all that I have put myself on the side of reality, rather than attempting to fight reality. I'm no longer twisting my consciousness into knots to maintain delusions about my present condition. So as long as we cannot admit the truth into our consciousness, we cannot change. So basically, there Yeah, well, basically, what she's saying is, I am who I am. And I have to learn how to accept all aspects of me before I can even start to work on changing parts of myself. Because sometimes we are trying to change ourselves without accepting it,

Guy: 23:19

right. Or we're going outside of ourselves to our partner or someone else, to validate it to get that validation to try to help us accept ourselves. And that's where it gets a little dicey. And then that reassurance becomes a lot more important in those situations,

Jamie: 23:34

right. And so I think just, it's having a clear understanding of who you are, and who the person you want to be as. And that's not always clear when you're 20, or 25. Or, you know, that's a journey that we're on throughout our I mean, some people, it's not clear at the end of their life. But for some people, it's clear when they're 16, or when they're, you know, it just depends on the journey you're on. And nothing brings out our flaws and insecurities faster than a long term relationship. And when you start living with somebody, and especially in a marriage,

Guy: 24:08

Especially the front end of that,

Jamie: 24:10

yes, in the beginning, because you're coming from a different set of ground rules and values. And even if you're from the same faith or the same community, you're coming from two separate households and the way your families communicated the way your families expressed love and received love. And so you're bringing two completely different backgrounds into one home and trying to figure out how to express love how to receive love.

Guy: 24:39

It's totally natural to feel uncertain. Cuz you are merging unknown parts together.

Jamie: 24:45

Yeah. And I think so being patient with that process, you know, and I always joke with people that it's funny, in today's world, if something is buffering on your phone, we're like, oh my gosh, taking forever. I'm like, remember when it took like five to seven days to hear from somebody because he had to put a stamp on an envelope and write on it with a pen and then put it in the mailbox. And then it took like a week to get a letter. Because if you call somebody it cost like$1 a minute, right? And so you And nowadays, you know, if Amazon takes more than 24 hours, right, cancel the order. It's too long, or we just have this really impatient to tie me back, right? And our relationships are falling into this impatience. And so is our self development. Right? If I can't master some I see it in my daughter sometimes like, you. I'm like, Oh, do you want to try that? Well, no, because I wouldn't be any good. I'm like, but that's why we

Guy: 25:44

Or we do try it. And a day in, Oh, I'm not good. Oh, this is no good.

Jamie: 25:50

Yeah. And like, I just signed my daughter up for swim camp this summer. And it's at a university. And, and she was like, all excited. I'm like, I'm jumping on this while she says yes. But I know. I'm preparing myself because she doesn't have a friend or buddy that she's going with. So she's gonna live in the dorms for four days. And which She's so excited about, but she's gonna probably have a roommate that she doesn't know. But who's also in the swim program. Yeah. And her age. So I think it'll be a great experience. And they eat at the cafeteria and all this. And I'm thinking, well, she's never swam at elevation. She's gonna be in the mountains at this camp. And so she's gonna feel that and I keep talking to her. I'm like, it's gonna be a challenge. This camps gonna challenge you, it's going to push you, they're going to videotape you, they're going to give you all kinds of feedback. And I just want and I just feel like we're having this pep talk all until June. Like, I just want you to be open to the experience. And it's okay that it's hard because

Guy: 26:43

It's gonna keep coming back. And she's gonna need reassurance that she made a good decision.

Jamie: 26:47

Yeah, a lot of parents are like, Oh, yeah, we fly our kids up. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, I think I'm gonna go to Provo and stay while she's in the camp, just because... I'm not gonna rescue her. But I just know at night, if she's struggling, she may call and and I just want to walk her through this and be like, I'm just around the corner. I mean, you know what, and

Guy: 27:07

I hear a little bit, you need a little reassurance.

Jamie: 27:09

Yeah, yeah.

Guy: 27:10

And that's totally fair. Yeah.

Jamie: 27:12

But I don't need to be there. I don't have to have her. But she's gonna need some reassurance because a new experience. And it doesn't make her weak. It doesn't make her you know, codependent. It just makes her human.

Guy: 27:24

Yeah. And the validation part of that is, you are a swimmer. Yeah, you are able to do this. And we've signed up for it.

Jamie: 27:32

And it's okay, that's going to be hard. It's okay, that it's going to be out of your comfort zone and challenging. That's part of what's going to push you and help you grow.

Guy: 27:40

Yeah, there's a sense of you qualify. So don't worry about that. But that's the validation, you qualify. Now, reassurances, cat might be little scary, some of you haven't done. And the vulnerability then plays into se and allow it to happen.

Jamie: 27:53

Yeah, yeah. So I keep saying like, and then we'll just stay up there for Fourth of July. It's gonna be so fun. We'll see your cousin's like, so I think it's gonna be fine. Like, some distractions, right. But I do think it's some carrots, right?

Guy: 28:07

By distraction, I meant carrots, like, you're decorating with a couple extra things, just in case.

Jamie: 28:12

But I think these are the kinds of experiences I want her to have. Because I want her to feel that sense of like pushing through discomfort and having success. And I remember feeling that when I first got married, and I probably wasn't as young as this listener is, but I remember thinking, oh, wow, this is challenging. There were so many fun aspects and so many cool things that we got to do and, and travel and go, you know, it's just so fun, kind of like having your life partner, and you come home from work and you're just making dinner and you're just, I don't know, watching your favorite show and, and kind of having those years before kids come, where you are just figuring each other out. And that's a really powerful time in a marriage. And so the fact that she's even thinking through this is so is helpful for her, you know,

Guy: 29:03

It seems like that would be a great place to lean in to some of the discomfort and and open those lines of communication. Yes, your new partner. Yeah. Cuz nothing will kind of put the, I guess, fears and stories to rest quicker than an open dialogue and clear communication.

Jamie: 29:25

Yeah. And go online. And I mean, you can look up the five love languages and take a little quiz. And you can figure out your husband may not know what his love languages, and she can figure out why his love languages and, and when you start to figure these things out, all of a sudden, we stop trying to love our partner with our language, and thinking, Well, why don't you feel loved and appreciated? Like look what I'm doing? And they're like, that's actually not how I feel loved. And so, but we don't have those conversations when we're dating and we're like, hey, fourth date. How do you feel loved? No one's having that conversation. But everyone in my office has had having that conversation like you don't know how I feel loved, because we don't think about having that conversation we think love should come naturally. And the feeling of loving somebody is natural. But

Guy: 30:13

So, like this listener, there's probably a feeling that I shouldn't need reassurance?

Jamie: 30:20

Maybe. I mean, I sense her insecurity a little bit and, but more I don't even know if it's insecurity, it's that anxiety, because she said, I have anxiety. And that anxiety is fight or flight. Right? So you're you're just in that field and that's a that's an exhausting feeling,

Guy: 30:37

So if we shine light on that, whether through communication or dialogue, or, you know, talking about it, whatever it I guess it's the same thing. Yeah, naming it naming it. That then, kind of demystifies it. It takes the secret away,

Jamie: 30:54

And it's okay to say, I'm feeling really anxious about this presentation I'm doing and I need some reassurance. Like is what I'm wearing. Okay, Do I look okay? It's okay to ask for what we need. And be direct about it. Like, I had to speak to a group of I don't know how many teenagers it was, but it was the it was a big Youth Conference. And before I left, I joked with my husband, Mike, to I look like a grandma, like I want to look like I mean, I, you know, I'm old enough to be their Grandma, for some of these kids. And so I just was like, I don't want to be their Grandma, you know, and he's like, I just needed the reassurance that I wasn't going in as frumpy Jamie. And he was laughing. I'm like, I just need some reassurance.

Guy: 31:36

Yeah. So in isolation, you just give me three things...

Jamie: 31:41

And that's fair, right, that we're human. And our partner is someone who can give that to us so, so easily. In a healthy relationship.

Guy: 31:49

That's what's your ally. That's your ally on your site. And so it's okay to ask and make that request. If there's pushback, great spot to have a dialogue and, and questions and open communication about that.

Jamie: 32:00

And I think the only caution on the backside of maybe where this can get into unhealthy behavior is when we become dependent because that you want to stay out of codependent behaviors. And that's when we make ourselves responsible for other people's feelings or other people responsible for ours.

Guy: 32:20

So let's go back. Let's go to the definition of codependent.

Jamie: 32:23

And codependency, there's a lot of variance in how you define it. But it's a lot about thinking and feeling responsible for other people, for their feelings, their thoughts, their actions, their choices, their wants, their needs, their well being, or their lack of well being. And so you see it a lot when I mean, parents can get codependent with their kids, especially with their adult children. Because now our worth and value is tied up in their choices and what they're doing, right. And I have this conversation with parents a lot, because they're like, Well, my kids, and I'm like, Whoa, your kids 20. Like, at some point in time, that child is responsible for their choices and feelings, and you know, not you. And actually, from the time we come into the world, we we have our feelings we are we are who we are. And our parents are there to guide us and to nurture it and to, and they're going to make mistakes, and they're going to say things that hurt, and they're going to apologize, hopefully and pick up and keep going. But I think you want to be careful about getting into my husband's responsible for how I feel my husband's responsible for if I feel good about myself or not, or my significant other or my kids or whatever. And you know, because I'll hear many parents say,

Guy: 33:38

yeah, just give us an example how that shows up.

Jamie: 33:41

I've heard many parents say, and I've had this conversation with my own mom that you can only be as happy as your unhappiest child. And I'm like, wow, that would be really discouraging. If a lot of really yeah, if you have a really unhappy kid. And then to say, I can never be happy or the kid. I don't think that's true. I think that because I know where that child ends and where I begin, that I can be happy independent of my child's choices. Now, can those choices be disappointing? Yes. Are those choices so hard for for my palate? Yes. whatever that might be when we watch our adult children or even our young children make terrible mistakes.

Guy: 34:23

So what draws us into that codependent relationship then?

Jamie: 34:26

I think fear. I think fear mostly we're so afraid of losing someone or something or even the relationship itself that

Guy: 34:37

It's that fear of disconnecting draws us in so tight that we become codependent.

Jamie: 34:43

And in the case of the listener, I think even anxiety can drive us there, right? Because anxiety is fear driven as well. A fear of the unknown. It's uncertain, right? And so I'm gonna scramble to make this happen or take responsibility for it. And when you start to get too into that codependence See, then you're holding your spouse or your partner or your kids responsible for how you feel in your life.

Guy: 35:06

So in the example of the reassurance and validation, if we draw that out to the point that we're seeking that solely from someone else, we become codependent on their thoughts and feelings about us. And that then determines how we act and how we show up in our daily life.

Jamie: 35:24

Yeah, rather than being really truly authentic to who you are.

Guy: 35:29

Right, which was definition independent. To be independent. Do you are you they are them. And in

Jamie: 35:35

a healthy marriage, there's a mutual respect for that. Yeah. But I think you have to talk you have to have dialogue about it. Because a lot of people go into marriage thinking we're going to be a one. What does that mean? You know, well, being one in purpose. Yes. Sure. One in our goals, and and what we hope to achieve as a family, yes. But my husband's goals are totally different than mine. Like for his personal life. Yeah. And but never has he been like, your goals have to be mine. I mean, to set our goals are different.

Guy: 36:05

Right, right. And that's a it's a much more structural, I guess, discussion. And again, with the validation of how we see ourselves, yeah, how our partner sees them.

Jamie: 36:15

Like, I wake up, and I'm like, I want to register for the Iron Man. And Dave's like, Yeah, I don't have that desire. And it's fine, right? He wants to build a new mountain bike on my guy. I'm like, I'd rather just buy a bike off the floor, right? Like, we just have different ideas of what our hobbies are or what and I think that I really like that we give each other room to be who we are.

Guy: 36:39

Yeah. And I think there's a misnomer around codependency too, because you hear quite often Oh, like, they don't hang out with anyone else. They just are always by the selves. And they're codependent. Right?

Jamie: 36:50

Yeah, that's not really codependent. They could just be really good friends.

Guy: 36:53

It gets labeled that way right yeah, we don't we don't go do stuff with people we must be codependent No,

Jamie: 36:59

no.

Guy: 37:01

Lazy habits of like it's easier to stay in our pajamas. Like it's COVID right. COVID codependency

Jamie: 37:07

No, I codependency it that's not what codependency is.

Guy: 37:11

Right. But that there? Is that out there? Kind of

Jamie: 37:13

Yeah, stigma. Like culturally, maybe.

Guy: 37:16

Right? It's like an introverted couple. Right? Just as fine being themselves in their home. Yeah. Oh, you're codependent. Do you want to hang out with me? You must be,

Jamie: 37:25

no, that codependency is really just holding other people responsible for how you feel, you know? And, and like I said, like, even my husband and I have said, like, we're not responsible for each other's happiness. But we certainly impact each other's happiness, right? Like I if I'm

Guy: 37:42

You're not in an isolated bubble.

Jamie: 37:44

no, I mean, if he's unkind to me, or I'm unkind to him, it's gonna impact how we're feeling. But at the end of the day, no matter what he has said to me, or how he treats me, I'm intact,

Guy: 37:55

right. You're independent, not isolated.

Jamie: 37:57

Right. And that's the neat thing about connection is, yeah, you aren't isolated, you can ask for the reassurance you need, ask for the validation you need. And, you know, I think about we have no problem going into a restaurant saying, Oh, can I get my parking ticket validated. But we have so much struggle to look at our significant other and say, I really need some validation. And that's the person who should at least want to give it to us.

Guy: 38:25

Yeah, it reminds me of a story. It may be as we wrap up here. I know, we're kind of getting on time. It with validation. I remember in our relationship where Aaron and I, when there was a point where it clicked to me that this conversation about validation and reassurance, you know, when you're in a new relationship, it's there, right? And I've known to be kind of up to sometimes

Jamie: 38:51

in a parking garage

Guy: 38:52

that I thought, oh, hit me, and I'm like, Oh, I might need to state my position here. Right. I've just been assuming that everyone understands. And I remember, like, having this onversation, and we were talki g about validation and reass rance and things, and I was j st like, bottom line. No, I'm m rried you and you married me. I love you that foundational thing that's not going to chang. You can't do something t at's going to change that founda ional element in our relationshi. There's gonna be stuff th t we get upset about. And we don t like and but it like it was li e ultimate, I validate you, you are you and I love you for that And I even in my kids the sam conversation. Like the ove is is, is there. Yeah, we' e gonna have probably arguments We're not gonna agree all the time. It doesn't change that kin of validates that you are ou and I love you because of tha.

Jamie: 39:45

Yeah. Well, and it's powerful, right? It's a powerful place to sit and to be in charge of how you feel about you. And just take that ownership and

Guy: 39:56

And to hear that, to receiv that from someone's like, Oh, w ll, that takes a lot of t

Jamie: 40:00

And it's really I go back to that definition from this cheesy movie is my partner is witnessing my life and I'm witnessing his. And there's a lot that we do together. And there's a lot we don't. I mean, he's gone all day at work, doing what he does and using his gifts and talents. And I'm doing mine and and we don't even see that part of each other a whole lot.

Guy: 40:25

But we've chosen to be in relationship. And that's okay

Jamie: 40:28

Yep. And so because of that, we try to see each other where we are. And we ask for what we need from each other. And that's an intimate space. Yes. And, and that's what can make marriage or you know, whatever relationship, a really beautiful thing, whether it's with your kids or, you know,

Guy: 40:45

yeah, that safety is ultimately what that anxiety drives. Right. We were we have anxious feelings about not being safe. And wondering, and needi g reassurance. And when we can r alize that, yeah, we're just itnessing each other

Jamie: 41:01

It's powerful, beca se even in friendships, to be a witness to somebody's life is r ally powerful thing. And so, nd I take that connection, or t at relational piece as kind of a sacred part of our lives.

Guy: 41:14

Yeah. Oh, good stuff. Hey, you always bring such good stuff to the table, Jamie, I appreciate it. And thank you to the listener.

Jamie: 41:21

Yeah, I hope it was helpful for her. Or if she's not more like,

Guy: 41:26

Yeah, send us a follow up question.

Jamie: 41:27

Send us some validation.

Guy: 41:30

Yeah, send us some reassurance that this was useful to you. And yeah, if you'd like more or responded. Other question, give us a part two. Yeah, for sure. And anyone else that's out there. Like I have a question. Send it in. We'd love to consider it and see how we can incorporate it into the show. And with that, I mean, have a great week, everybody. Thanks for joining me here on the Davenport Jamie.

Jamie: 41:51

It's good to be here.

Guy: 41:53

And don't forget to go out and give us those reviews. Very good. Have a great week, everyone. Take care.

Jamie: 41:57

Bye Bye.

Guy: 41:59

Thanks so much for listening this week. Stay connected by following us on Instagram or Facebook at the Davenport podcast. For more information on coaching services with guy, visit his website, TheCoachGuy.net. For additional information regarding counseling services, the daring way curriculum, or relationship counseling, please go to JamiePyattLCSW.com.

Jamie: 42:26

The Davenport podcast is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. Although Jamie is a licensed clinical social worker and guy as a professional life coach. The information and opinions shared by the hosts and their guests are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment. The information on this show does not create a client therapist or coaching relationship and should not be taken as professional advice or guidance. Please consult with your physician or qualified health care provider regarding any medical or mental health conditions.