Guy: 0:42

Welcome back to The Davenport. Before we get started, I want to do a quick reminder to our listeners. If you haven't subscribed already, please subscribe. That automatically downloads each episode, make sure that you're not missing out on any of the Davenport goodness. Also, if you like what you're hearing, please leave a review. We'd love the feedback. We'd love to see what people are thinking. And it also gets us into those algorithms to for people to find us. So Jamie, Who's this guy?

Jamie: 1:09

I brought a friend. It's like show and tell.

Guy: 1:12

We were joking that it's Jamie secret guest every week.

Jamie: 1:16

Although last week was your guest.

Guy: 1:17

It was my guest. The week before we had your mom.

Jamie: 1:20

I do bring friends and they sit quietly. My mom... my friend Andrea.

Guy: 1:23

Erin's like, do we need to get another couch for the guests to come watch?

Jamie: 1:27

But this time, I thought when I have guests at my house, they stay for free. And I'm gonna start saying, Oh, you can be a guest on our podcast. So here's my show and tell. We brought Brent Peterson. He's also known as Weber Trackstar.

Brent: 1:45

That is a self-appointed nickname, which is embarrassing at this stage of life.

Guy: 1:49

Weber Trackstar. Can we just pause right there? So my first question - tell me more about Weber Trackstar. What is that?

Brent: 1:57

In the early 90s... Just recently... No, I when I first started getting email addresses like B Peterson was taken. Brent Peterson was taken. So a friend of mine was like, why don't you do Weber Trackstar? Lo-and-behold, it was available. So I got that email address. And I've had it for like 30 years.

Jamie: 2:14

And he really did run track at Weber.

Brent: 2:17

I did run track and Weber State University, but I was not a star. I was very good at congratulating those people that beat me. As long as I did my best.

Jamie: 2:28

It was good. So that's a little background. So he's a Utah native. He grew up in Bountiful, Utah, and comes from a family of boys. All brothers. So I always tease him that I'm the older sister he never wanted but got. Or never asked for, we'll go with that. But we met in our early 20s in college. He had transferred from Weber State to Brigham Young University. And we have been friends ever since. We were like, maybe 23, 24 years old. And he graduated from BYU in communications, and then later got an MBA at the University of Utah. And now works as... what's your job title?

Brent: 3:10

Yeah, so I'm a national part Manager for a cybersecurity company. I had always had aspirations of being a weatherman. So when I transferred to BYU, I was going to be...

Guy: 3:19

Now that you say that, you look, weathermanly.

Brent: 3:21

Here's the problem. There's only like three of those positions per TV market. And you have to work late at night. So I figured that that wasn't gonna be a long term success.

Jamie: 3:30

Even in our 20s, like, I can remember going dancing in Mexico with him. And you know, at 11 it's just getting started. And Brent's, like, Oh my gosh, how much longer are we staying?

Brent: 3:41

Oh, yeah. I'm a grandpa when it comes to that. In fact, growing up I didn't have a curfew. My parents encouraged me to stay out later. I was like, I gotta get home get to bed.

Guy: 3:49

Hey, you know, Brent, you can go places.

Brent: 3:52

I've always been a sleeper. I don't do a lot of things well, but I do sleep well. And that's a good thing.

Guy: 3:58

Jamie, I'm guessing you're closing the club down type of a gal?

Jamie: 4:02

In my 20s, yes.

Guy: 4:03

Yeah, I was that way. I think we've talked about Club Omni before.

Jamie: 4:07

I've done Club Omni. But dancing in Monterrey, Mexico until 3am. It was great.

Brent: 4:14

Guy, they said, as soon as the song ends, we'll go. And it was one of those on repeat for four hours. I mean, it was just one song would just blend into the next... there was no break. So I just stood there, angry, ready to go.

Guy: 4:28

Made the most of it, sounds like.

Brent: 4:30

No, I didn't. I wanted to go home. I was miserable.

Jamie: 4:32

And I would look over at him like laying across the table and I'm like, he's good.

Brent: 4:39

Some people think it's funny. I'm not so sure at the moment I thought it was funny.

Guy: 4:42

Okay, so you guys went to school together.

Jamie: 4:45

Long history and so even as our lives went in different directions, we always stayed friends and would make time to see each other when we're in in the same city. And when I got married, he got along great with my husband because everyone gets along with my husband. And so it's been great. So he comes to visit us in San Diego when he needs to get out of Utah. And usually, we go to dinner or something when we're in Utah. And my favorite thing, when I think about Brent, he was always kind of the party planner, and he's a gatherer, and let's hang out, and he likes games, to play games. And he worked with summer camps, like people would send their kids to a summer camp at Brigham Young University for a week. And he was a counselor. And I always used to think, oh, he's probably super fun because he'll do a flash mob or whatever.

Brent: 5:34

I actually participated in my first flash mob this weekend, something I thought I would never have to do in life.

Jamie: 5:39

But you loved it.

Brent: 5:40

I actually did like it. I've been looking at a lot of YouTube videos, try to think how I could do another one.

Jamie: 5:46

So yeah, it's like, he's just fun. So on the side of his actual career, he has a little company called Game Chef, and he makes board games. So I thought it'd be fun to talk to him about the game life.

Brent: 5:58

Well, and how that came about is, I've always liked games, right? I worked at a technology company. And one day we were driving home, we to carpooled. And I was like, we were arguing over font size on a presentation. And I was like, is this what my life has become? And you know, the guy I carpool with said, well, you're supposed to do something you always love. Well, I realized at this stage of life, this body isn't producing any money in sports, like, I'm not going to be in the NBA or anything like that. So someone's like, well, you like games. I'm like, I've always liked games. I mean, I was the kid that would organize neighborhood games on Sunday nights. And, you know, kick-the-can, ditch, hide-and-go-seek, tag, all these different games. I've always loved that, right? When we go on a hike, I'll come up with game ideas, like, those type of things. I've always done that. So I just like, I gotta figure out how to do games.

Jamie: 6:43

And even like waiting in an airport. He's the guy that's like, sitting there. He's like, okay, two truths and a lie, you know, and everyone starts to do it. Like, he just always is thinking of a way to play a game.

Brent: 6:53

Yeah, I'm that guy who sometimes you like, and sometimes you don't like, depends on your attitude, right. And so I've always liked games in as Jamie knows. And so, you know, I, I just like, well, I got to figure out how to do games. And so that's kind of how it all started. And it started with, we need to come up with the name. So I was gonna be like, The Game Baker, The Game Maker, all of these URLs were taken. And so I was like, The Game Chef. And lo-and-behold, there was available. So that's how the game chef brand was launched. It started right there.

Guy: 7:21

That was on my list was Tell me more about The Game Chef. Are you a cook or do you like...?

Brent: 7:25

No, no, but we are cooking up fun.

Guy: 7:29

I hope that's the tagline.

Brent: 7:30

That is the marketing tagline, yes. Cooking up fun. And it works.

Guy: 7:37

So how long you've been doing this for?

Brent: 7:38

About nine years? Um, yeah. So I, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. So I flew back to Wisconsin and met with the guys that had created Apples-to-Apples, and just said, how do you do this?

Guy: 7:50

You just cold called and said, Hey, can I come?

Brent: 7:52

I don't know if I cold called or stalked him... Somehow I tracked him down. And he's like, yeah, I'll meet with you. So I met with him and showed up at his office in Wisconsin, he kind of talked me through it. At the time, they had worked for a company called out of the box games, which had grown big, but they had sold off some of their titles to Hasbro. So a lot of these people were trying to reinvent themselves, right, they'd already sold off their big names. And some of the ones who had helped produce the game started their own company. So I just kind of got in with them and said, How do I produce a game? I don't even know how to where to start. So I asked a lot of questions. And you know, I was surprised so many people are just open to explain and share the stuff that they know, right?

Jamie: 8:31

Especially someone genuinely curious. I think if you're genuinely curious about stuff, then people are willing to share information. I mean, and they're excited that someone is as passionate as they are, you know?

Brent: 8:42

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I had ulterior motives. I thought if I use these people, they will use their context to help me grow the business. Well, that didn't turn out to be reality. They just kind of was like, this is how you do it. And then if you want to pay I'll design the game for you that type of thing.

Jamie: 8:57

So what was the first game?

Brent: 8:59

So the first game I made was a game called Rollick, which is like a team charades game. Real simple. I don't know if you guys know what rollick means?

Jamie: 9:07

I don't.

Brent: 9:08

It's an actual English word, which means to act or behave in a jovial, fun, carefree manner. To rollick. Like, we're having a rollicking good time.

Guy: 9:17

Yeah, I've heard that.

Brent: 9:18

I was really impressed with myself when I was like, I'll call the game rollick. Because I thought, you know, people are smart. But then I found out later people aren't. They don't know what that means. Right? I would have been better calling the game team charades. In fact, I made a new game recently called Speed Charades. And it sells great. Because what do you think it is? You play charades fast, right? So it's pretty simple.

Guy: 9:42

Keep it simple.

Brent: 9:42

Keep it simple. Yeah, so you know, I just kind of learned along the way. So Rollick was my first game, and it did well, and, you know, we ran away from there.

Jamie: 9:52

What did you find to be the most challenging thing that you've learned in these nine years, like maybe a game that didn't do well or you think feel like that was kind of a flopper.

Brent: 10:01

Yeah, I think the lesson I learned I would tell anybody that I talked to about this is just do what you think works best for you. Because in the end, I'm either gonna succeed by myself or I'm gonna fail by myself. I made a game called long story short, which was a tweeting texting type game. And I used to designer back in New York, one of the high end designers in the business. And, you know, he sent me a design, I was like, why is there a bluebird on the box? He's like, Oh, that's like the Twitter bird. I was like, that's clever. But nobody has any idea what that means. Right? And so I, I didn't want it to look like that. But I was like, well, he knows more than I do. And in the end, I wasn't ever happy with it. And we produced it. You know, I was joking earlier about the editing, I ended up doing my own editing, which, by the way, if you're starting your own business, don't do your own editing. There was an example on the back of the box. It was supposed to say, I tried to. I showed my brother when the product came. He's like, it says, I tired too. And you know how many times I looked at that? 100's. And I never noticed it said the wrong word.

Guy: 11:08

We just got a note from our Chinese factory the other day of a packaging typo on a package that's been in print for two years. It was just a random batch that they were putting together and they're like, Hey, I don't know if you want brush to be spelled that way. It's bursch. And it's like, oh, I'm sure like 10 people looked at that. And we all signed off on it. And then we've been printing it for two years.

Brent: 11:32

Yeah, on my Rollick game, it said, it's the tagline is the hysterical game of losing collaboration. Collaboration has two L's. Just so you know. The first printing has one L.

Guy: 11:46

In the world of Wikipedia, it is whatever you go with. Just own it.

Jamie: 11:48

That's true.

Guy: 11:49

Yeah, that's fair. So I mean, you just learn along the way. And, you know, if you want to feel bad about yourself, read your reviews on Amazon. Like, they're hurtful.

Jamie: 11:59

What did you call it? We called it something last night, we were talking about how people can be so mean, online.

Brent: 12:05

Oh, yeah. They all have keyboard courage. This game is no fun. And I'm like, Well, I'm sorry, send it back. I'll give you your money back. Like, in fact, somebody told me this quote, a long time ago, and I'll see if I get it, right. But it was something like, it's better to create and be criticized, then do nothing and criticize those who create.

Jamie: 12:24

I like that.

Brent: 12:25

So I learned from my self esteem to try to avoid reading those, and I only get a few that are lower. And usually it's they didn't play it right. Or they didn't understand the rules and things like that. So I'm gonna chalk that up to just most people not... Americans want to open the box, play the game, and then read the rules when they get stuck. They don't want to read the rules on how to play

Guy: 12:43

That sounds like our kids. I'm always the rule reader.

Jamie: 12:48

I'm a rule reader as well. And it drives my daughter crazy.

Guy: 12:51

They throw the instructions at me. And then they start setting it up. I'm like, well, but wait.

Jamie: 12:55

And my daughter will say no, this is how you do it. And so then I'm like, let me see. And when I read the rule, and she's wrong, she's very upset.

Guy: 13:04

That's what you want from a good game, is fights.

Brent: 13:07

I try to make games that are fun for families that can expand to the group... you can p ay with your kid. I always kind of have like a rule like a I comfortable playing this with my mother? That's kind of ho I that's my test on is t is material too much? Because ga es today are all very ad lt content. Very push the envelo

Guy: 13:26

Yeah, when did that change?

Brent: 13:27

A few years ago.

Guy: 13:29

Yeah, there's actually like, clean and I'll just call it dirty versions on the shelf at Target.

Brent: 13:34

Yeah. It's NSFW... Not Safe For Workplace, I think is what that stands for.

Guy: 13:39

Or they have that at night version or after dark. Yes.

Jamie: 13:45

Explicit.

Brent: 13:48

I bought a game because I was trying to look at some other ones. I made a game called Been There, Done That. Mine's like, who's been to Paris, who's been to London, or, you know, who's been skydiving, right? Some of these are who's done whatever, right? And, and, in fact, I was going through the cards, and I showed a friend of mine. I'm like, What does this mean? He's like, do you want to know? And I was like, No, I don't think so. And I'm a 40 year old grown man.

Guy: 14:12

If your board game is making you blush, that's a sign that maybe it's gone too far.

Brent: 14:16

Yeah. So I think it's fun. Like, for me, I just I have found a niche that I enjoy. I love talking about it. You know, I have a full time day job. But it's hard for me to talk about and get excited. But I could talk about games forever. I know this is going to be a limited time. But I love talking about it. And part of it. It's just one of those things where you, you get to the point where you make something and there's it's a success and you feel good about yourself. As you guys know, it's like when I first saw the game on the shelf, it's like this sense of pride. I don't even care if anyone bought it.

Guy: 14:49

And you don't even care what store it's in. Like it could be in, you know, a convenience store and you're like, Oh my gosh, come come check it out. There's three on the shelf. There's three on the shelf. Three people are going to buy that.

Brent: 14:58

I did a little test at Walmart. And just some local, like seven Walmart's in Utah. And so I was like they're not selling well, so I got to change that. Did you buy them? All of them. So I had a cart full of 17 games, and I'm going through the checkout. And the little 16 year old kid is like, Oh, so is this game fun? I'm like, oh yeah, it's one of my favorite. I love it.

Guy: 15:21

And everyone's getting one for Christmas.

Brent: 15:23

He's like, why are you buying so many? I'm like, Well, you know, I just love it. And he's like, Oh, just like Dungeons and Dragons. I'm like, No, not really. And then I was like, stop asking me questions. And he's like, Well, do you need these? I'm like, Well, I own a toy store. And he's like, oh, what's it called? And I was going to say, Toys R Us. But

Guy: 15:35

I'm looking at my wife right now. Because I know that halfway through it. I knew I was lying. And so I said, it's called Toys R me. And he's like, I've never heard of that. Oh, my God. It's a small store up north. Just check me out. Please just check me out. And off I go with my 17 games, all my same game. I was like, I have to have it be successful. when we lived up in Utah County, We did the tour all the way around the lake, all the Walmarts.

Brent: 16:06

But yeah, like, I always laugh about that. I literally started saying I own Toys R Us. Now that's nothing to be proud of. I think they're out of business. Right? I think they're done. Um, but yeah, Toys R me. Big store up north.

Jamie: 16:17

So when did it kind of turn around? What What do you think helped make you get going and off the ground?

Brent: 16:23

I think two things. One, I really, really like it. So if I would have never succeeded, then I would have been okay with it. Like for me, some people golf. Some people surf. Like, I don't do any of that. So for me, this was kind of my hobby, if that makes sense. It was the thing I thought about it night, it's the thing I'd wake up in the morning. I mean, when I'm in the shower, I try to think of game ideas. So for me, that was the money or the success was irrelevant. So I liked that aspect of it. And then I think the second one is just perseverance and just sticking at it. And, you know, like you were saying, I'll give the game out a play. And I'm like, hey, if it's negative feedback, I don't want to hear it. But if you like it, please let me know. Right? And if you don't just put it up on your shelf, and I think that's the thing that's interesting. When people buy games, they open them, they play them, and then they put them on the shelf. And you may or may not ever play it again. Right? Which I don't care. If you buy it, that's great.

Jamie: 17:17

I always like when I get a box in the mail from Frank, it's gonna be a game. And in working with, you know, having a teenager and having teenagers in your home, we've been able to play these games over the years. And so we have our favorites. And then it's great when Brent comes into town, because maybe I don't know how to play one of them. And then when we play with Brent, we're like, oh, that's really fun.

Guy: 17:35

Yeah, that's when you Mackenzie can be like, okay, what's the real rules? Mom says, but I don't believe her.

Brent: 17:42

I've had to correct every game they've played. Jaime, that's not the rules. Well, how do you know? Because I wrote them.

Guy: 17:48

What game are you playing? That's not my game. Yeah, I had a question. So when you're thinking of these games, what is the driving factor? Does it have to be unique? Is there a certain genre type of game you you think of or create? What's the creative?

Brent: 18:05

I would say the one game that I came up with it was genius, and unique and new. bombed. Right? Because it was just too much. So I think I always tell everybody, you know, people will call me and say, hey, I want to make a game. I'm like, Look, every game has already been made. It's just an iteration of something else. You're improving it. You're playing charades fast, like my speech rates. I didn't come up with charades, right? I'm not claiming that. But I did. You know, make a game where you play charades in a different way. So for me, I found that you don't have to be a genius to do something.

Guy: 18:38

It's a creative spin on an existing idea.

Brent: 18:41

Yeah, I mean, it's just straightforward. That's, that's kind of how it is. It's like, Look, I already know this is successful, like in the industry right now. Cards Against Humanity is super popular. And there are so many iterations of the same game, the same playability. It's basically Apples-to-Apples, right, where you play a card down every place the card that I picked the best one. There's probably 10 to 20 games that are that exact same game. They're just trying to piggyback off the success of Cards Against Humanity. So you don't have to come up with something genius. You just have to try to do something better or different.

Guy: 19:18

Yeah, I think that's any inventor or entrepreneur, right? Whatever pops for you as you're starting a business. That's that learning curve. You have to get over where it's, oh, I have to recreate the wheel. I have to come up with something genius again. And I guess there's a point where everyone realizes, oh, I don't have to go to space. I can find something here.

Brent: 19:39

Yeah. And I made one recently. It's called Pun Intended. I don't love puns. I don't know who does. But everyone knows someone who does, right. Like, my sister in law is like, your brother's the worst. Like he thinks everything is so funny. And he's always trying to tell puns. So I'm like people like puns. So I made a pun game, because there's like, there's probably a need For that, or everybody needs to buy a gift for, you know, guy, the pun guy at Christmas, he'll like this game.

Guy: 20:07

It's super punny.

Brent: 20:09

So my tagline is, It's all pun and games.

Jamie: 20:14

And that's been one of your top sellers.

Brent: 20:15

Yeah. And so this year, we're actually launching Pun Intended Too, t-o-o. Kind of like Teen Wolf Two but it really wasn't Michael J. Fox.

Guy: 20:23

I think you do like puns.

Brent: 20:24

I'm getting better at them. And when I'm putting together the game, I know every one. I bring them out, I have friends that'll be like, Please stop. And I am not witty enough to come up with them. But since I've read them, and I, you know, put them all together in a game, I can implement them into my conversation.

Jamie: 20:42

So tell me how have the games done through COVID? Because I know, I've been doing puzzles, like old lady puzzles, like thousand piece puzzles, 800 piece puzzles. And it's like an eight week wait on Amazon for them to come. And so I'm curious how your games have done during COVID.

Brent: 20:58

And when I just a little point on that when I started doing games, I think we were trending to a society where every game was online. Everyone downloaded apps and every game was online. I was like, people don't play board games anymore. But somewhere along the line, there's been this need to connect with people. And, you know, it's been really positive in that standpoint. And so when COVID hit, people at home, and they just want to play games, so my sales were up significantly, we did really, really well. I don't know if it's fortunate that I didn't sell out at Christmas time. But I was fortunate that I still had plenty of product available to sell during COVID. So COVID was good.

Guy: 21:33

Covid's the second Christmas.

Brent: 21:35

It kinda was. If there's anything that's good that came out of COVID, it's that The Game Chef sold a lot of games. So that was the good that came out of it. But I think people were home and nothing to do and wanted to find something to do like you were saying puzzles it sold out, right? It was at that point. I wish I was in into puzzles and had created some puzzles, but I haven't but it said well that way.

Guy: 21:55

So you'd mentioned online games, you know, what are your feelings on digital, video games, online games, compared to board games?

Brent: 22:04

Yeah, you know, I just I was never the video guy. And the problem goes way back to when my parents bought back in the day everyone was getting Nintendo for Christmas. Well, my parents went to the store.

Guy: 22:14

Hey, we need to go back further, like... Atari.

Jamie: 22:17

How about Intellivision?

Guy: 22:20

That was the fancy one. Atari was the basic, intellivision. I had a friend who had that, I was like, those fancy remote control things that looked like little telephones

Jamie: 22:29

Knightstalker. I played that for hours.

Guy: 22:31

That was the Donkey Kong, right?

Brent: 22:32

We did asteroids on Atari. I was really good at Frogger. That was my go to. But so there was Atari, and then Nintendo came out. Not Nintendo... What was it? 64 or whatever it was... but the first Nintendo. My parents went to the store and were talked into Sega. Because Sega was gonna take over the world.

Guy: 22:51

Yeah, the Genesis system.

Brent: 22:53

Yes. So we're home practicing on Sega. But when you go to your friend's house and play Nintendo, you're bad.

Guy: 22:58

Sega was like the beta of... Betamax of VHS.

Brent: 23:03

Yeah. So I did not enjoy video games. Because when I'd go to my friend's house and play with my friends, they were all super good. And I was bad. And it just wasn't fun. So I've never been a gamer per se, right? Like, I'm not I don't sit at the airport and play a game on my phone. So yeah, I've always just thought keep it simple. And put together a game that brings people together. Like I'm not smart enough to come up with a strategic game. Or if you do these seven steps, you cracked the code, you know, all those games are way over my head, right? I'm just like, three vegetables... Go. Or stuff like that, right? Or, hey, act out this word, we're gonna guess it. Yeah, tandem bike, or whatever. That's kind of where I play. And I guess it's just you got to know your strengths, right? Like, I'm just not that guy. I never got into video games. I never got into online games. I'm not into roleplay games. I will see like, I'll see my nephews on their phones, like on Sunday nights, and we're together and I'll be like, electronics are lame. And they're like, Uncle Brent, You're lame. I'm like, No, let's go outside and play. They're like after this. I'm like, That's so lame. So I've never been that guy. I've just never been into it. I don't know if it's generational. In fact, at work whenever something, you know, a break down, I'll just see like, I can't get something to work on my computer. I'll just yell out loud. Where's the millennial? Like, I need help. Like, sir, you just click this button. Oh, okay. Got it. Got it.

Guy: 24:29

I think it is generational. But then there are pockets of like people our age that video game.

Jamie: 24:35

Oh, yeah. In fact, even in my practice, it gets in the way of marriage. Right? I have people coming in and they're like, we don't go to bed together. You know, it's just because gaming becomes such a big issue. But you never have that problem with monopoly. You know, it's like, you know, it's 10 o'clock. Let's go to bed.

Guy: 24:54

Respect the Leppard.

Brent: 24:54

And truthfully like people to play my games wear what we're wearing Jamie, l ke bright colors. And people hat play The other games wear hat Guy's wearing, kind of dar, black Def Leppard shirt.

Jamie: 25:10

I've seen those guys in concert like three times.

Guy: 25:14

Okay, just a side note. They are an amazing concert.

Jamie: 25:16

They are the good. Even as they got older, they're still good.

Guy: 25:21

Erin went to Def Leppard concert with me. You thought it was amazing, right?

Jamie: 25:26

I mean, total tangent... inside note. First time I went to Def Leppard concert as a junior in high school. And my parents didn't know I was going because I mean, I bought my own ticket was going with friends, and I walked out I'm wearing shorts, cowboy boots, and I had crimped my hair. Remember the 80s the crimper I'd crimped my hair and had a Def Leppard bandana in my hair. And my dad, I remember, I walked out, my dad's like, Where are you going? I'm going to change my life, Dad, that's what I'm doing. And he's like, you're taking the station wagon. So we went to Def Leppard in style. Anyway, tangent over. But, fun times.

Guy: 26:03

So the board games, what's a classic board game that we all know that is like one of your favorites?

Brent: 26:09

You know, it's interesting, because I used to really love playing games. But as I've started to make my own, I don't find myself as much enjoying them, but I'm good with the catchphrase. My frustration with catchphrase is that...

Guy: 26:20

Remind me...

Brent: 26:21

It's the one where you have to describe the word and then you hit it and hand it to the person next to you in your circle, like a buzzer, and there's a beep, beep, beep, beep and it goes faster, and you have no idea. But the thing that's frustrating to me is like if I'm playing with Jamie, and she's taking forever, and then she gets it right at the end and hands it to me and it buzzes on me. That's very frustrating. Because I'm not the one who should have been cut.

Guy: 26:43

You should have been out, not me.

Brent: 26:44

Yeah. So I do like the catchphrase. Pictionary back in the day. I'm good with all of those, So nothing that's too difficult.

Guy: 26:53

You're not pulling out like Risk, or...

Brent: 26:55

I do like Risk, but it takes too long for me.

Guy: 26:58

Did you ever hear or a game called Stayin' Alive? Obviously by the name, it was a 70s game. But it was I don't know what it was made of. It was like a square and then had these things you pulled and you put a bunch of marbles on top of it. And then you pulled them and they drop inside. It was like the last marble standing.

Jamie: 27:17

I've never heard of it.

Guy: 27:17

I used to love it.

Brent: 27:18

Like Jenga now, right?

Guy: 27:21

And it had disco packaging. It was pretty cool back in the day.

Brent: 27:24

Maybe after this we could talk about bringing it back. We'll call it Keepin' Alive.

Jamie: 27:30

Or Bringing It Back Alive. I was always card game girl. Like I like the card games. I like Speed. I like Pit. I like the card games.

Guy: 27:40

Do you play Pit with them? We went over for a nice game of Pit one night. Then it's like, yeah, they're at the stock market, right? That's what the whole point of the game is. But I just didn't expect like the room to be standing and yelling at everyone. Our kids loved it. They're like, Oh my gosh, that was so fun.

Jamie: 27:59

Yeah, they're like, when are we going back?

Brent: 28:01

We did play that last time I was in town.

Jamie: 28:02

Yeah, we did.

Guy: 28:03

And you have the bell, too. We don't the bell. And that's a key part of that game.

Brent: 28:06

And the problem is, I'm a stickler to rules. So when the four year old accidently hits the bell... penalty. Minus 20. Well, he's four. It doesn't matter. He broke the rules. Yeah, so I'm a real stickler.

Jamie: 28:24

And your games are fun. We've had so much fun playing them over the years, it's no surprise that this has become successful for you.

Brent: 28:30

And just just last point in that, like, for me, it's truly like a labor of love. I know that sounds a little cheesy, but I've always liked it. And I think that's what I would tell anybody as I talk about it is you just kind of find something you really like, you know, you always say if you do something you love, you never have to work a day in your life. Well, that's not true. It's also really hard. Yeah. And it's a there's a lot of risk. Pun intended. Yeah. No, but there's a lot of, you know, get a clue. I'm on a roll!

Guy: 28:56

Until you get that monopoly, it's not going to pay the bills.

Jamie: 29:01

And that's life.

Guy: 29:03

So Brent, though, what if someone's like, oh, man, I have the best idea for a game. What's your advice to them?

Brent: 29:09

Don't do it. That was what somebody told me. The first person I asked. I said, What do you think about games they were in the industry is like, don't do it. Because it's hard. You have to produce a game that you think is great. design it, create it, produce it, ship it, store it and then hope that somebody buys it.

Guy: 29:26

There's a lot of upfront.

Brent: 29:27

I have a friend who said, hey, my dad made a game. Can you help me sell it? I said, Well, yeah, I'll help you, you know, put it together and we'll get it on Amazon. Well, I got he has 2000 units in his basement not compiled. And it's a game that no one's ever heard of. But his dad made him thought it was going to be great. And so he's like, I'm like, it's not even compiled. So we would have to compile them all and there's no shipping containers.

Guy: 29:50

That's when you start crying a little for them, right?

Brent: 29:52

I was like, You know what, you're better off just giving these as wedding gifts for the next 30 years and call it good. So Again, my only advice is like, so I say that kind of joking. But I would say if you have an idea just do it.

Guy: 30:06

Erin and I do the same thing. Like, oh, I'm thinking about start my own business. I have this idea. And first thing, we smile, but inside, we're like, you know, are you crazy? I mean, and so then you're always like, so well... yeah, how much do you like risk? You know, do you value your free time?

Brent: 30:24

And I would say for me, my advice to anybody on anything would be... ask. Try to find out who knows what they're doing. Because they've already learned the lessons that way, you don't have to learn them as badly.

Guy: 30:38

Or get through them quicker. The problems aren't gonna be avoided,. You just hopefully get to them quicker.

Brent: 30:45

Well, whether you're tired or tried. It's the same thing, right?

Guy: 30:49

Get your bursh out.

Jamie: 30:53

And of course, being on a podcast with a life coach and a therapist. It's not all bad games. I think that the tagline every week where I try to get guy as uncomfortable as possible is... let's talk about feelings. And then all of a sudden, he's like, feelings?

Guy: 31:08

Do you have any feelings games?

Brent: 31:09

No, there's no feeling games.

Jamie: 31:12

There's a whole market for for therapeutic games.

Brent: 31:15

Tell me your feelings. Let's talk about this after.

Jamie: 31:18

Yeah. And then you could have the song, feelings.

Guy: 31:20

So that was really my question in asking stuff. I had a game idea.

Jamie: 31:25

There's a whole network of games that clinicians use about like, it's about feelings, anger, all that.

Guy: 31:31

Some people call those tricks, but yeah, we'll go with games.

Jamie: 31:34

They're actual board games. Yeah, you can order them.

Guy: 31:36

Like, you go to therapy and...

Jamie: 31:38

Yeah, you play games.

Guy: 31:40

Brent, I don't know how you feel about that, but if I showed up at a therapist and they're like, today...

Jamie: 31:44

No, it's for kids, right? It's not for adult. But sometimes they're just good icebreakers when you're working as a clinician for kids to come in. And you're like playing a game, or we're working on feelings or emotions. And so in a game, there's this application, they can use that sometimes, like, you're not going to talk to a nine year old about why do you get mad, but in a game, you can process it in a way that is helpful for a kid. So when I when I think about it, you know, as we started this podcast, kind of as we're still in COVID, we're still going through this process of isolation, especially in California moreso than where you are living,

Guy: 32:21

We're playing a lot of games.

Jamie: 32:22

Yeah, playing lots of games, ordering puzzles, coloring. Coloring's on the comeback, I mean, the adult coloring books, but I think, you know, as you've gone through this process, I know you've gone to working at home, and then Game Chefs from home, and your social circle has all gone home. So how has it been for you going through COVID? And, and having this experience of your life kind of turned around?

Brent: 32:50

Yeah, so I'll say that, you know, we talked about earlier, the success of the games during COVID has been great. The rest of it has not been great. Like, for me, someone who's extroverted, to all of a sudden go home and be isolated was torture.

Guy: 33:06

So it wasn't like you went into your layer and designed games and just like, came out with 10 great things to launch.

Brent: 33:14

No. And well, you'd think. Everyone's like, why don't you use this time to come up with the new games? But for me, I got really anxious about it. Because everything you saw on the news was if you go to the grocery store, you're going to die. And so I got really anxious about I wouldn't leave. I mean, I had some friends over and one of them had allergies. And he kept sniffling I'm like that COVID? is that COVID? and after like four times, like I'm just gonna go, like, I'm not trying to be a jerk here. But I was so worried about it, right? And it was really hard because from someone whose life revolves around movies, the gym, not necessarily in this order movies, the gym dinners, dates, friends, all of a sudden that stopped, and you're just home alone. And you know, I joke with some other friends of mine, that you you'd see CBS would say hashtag alone together, but together. I'm like, no, it's hashtag alone. We're just alone. Right? And it's really, really hard for people. And, you know, some of the things I think I learned through this was, it's okay not to be okay. And I got pretty good at just like talking to people and being open about it. Like, I'm not okay with this. Like, it's not normal for someone to just be locked in your house.

Jamie: 34:27

Well, and we're not wired for that. I mean, we're wired for human connection. And so when someone says you must stay six feet apart, I think there's some people in the world who are who are comfortable with that more because they're uncomfortable with the risk of actually connecting but most people want to connect. It's really hard when I even go out to meet a new client, I my instinct is to shake their hand. And I'm finding myself, you know, it's like this awkward millisecond. I'm like, Oh, I'm sorry. You know, I'm introducing myself without really engaging in connection the way I want to.

Brent: 35:00

Yeah, I wish they would have used the term physical distancing instead of social distancing? Because social distancing means we can't get together. But physical distance, it means we can get together like, well, we are here, you know, we're six feet apart, or we're in the same room, and we're talking and we're connecting. And so that I think that was the thing that was hard as, you know, people wouldn't even have you over. I couldn't even you know, you can't be with people that I think was the problem. I mean,

Guy: 35:23

Zoom didn't replace that for you?

Brent: 35:25

I actually didn't like zoom. Zoom actually reminded me of how bad we are like, I have to be on zoom. And truthfully, you know how some people like, I feel like the angle is not right. I'm like, did I gain 10 pounds?

Jamie: 35:39

I like hang up from zoom and I feel bad about myself. I'm like, wow, I need some Botox.

Brent: 35:44

I had a zoom call the other day and a guy work with text me said, Dude, you look tired. I'm like, I slept nine hours. This is what I look like when I don't shower yet. I haven't showered yet.

Guy: 35:55

My laptop... the stack of books I keep putting under it gets higher and higher.

Brent: 35:59

It is a better angle from the top.

Guy: 36:00

You look like you're like, Hello, I'm down here in this hole.

Brent: 36:05

It's a much better angle. Yeah, that's a good one.

Guy: 36:08

My Favorites when the zoom call freezes, and it's in the middle of like an... And you're like, what, now we need to see

Jamie: 36:14

yeah. It's hard because even virtual connection doesn't that permanently? compare to real time real in person connection. Yeah. And it because even as a therapist, when I'm doing, you're doing like telemedicine, it's really hard when you have a woman who's grieving a miscarriage or something grieving on your computer screen. And there's just something more powerful about being able to do that in person or with an even a live phone call. That's not zoom feels better actually, then the zoom call. And so as you found that struggle, or that felt that isolation, what helped you? I mean, what and what didn't help you?

Brent: 36:52

Well, I always thought to myself, if I got COVID, I want to make sure I get the Fox version of COVID not the CNN version of COVID. Because I was like, I literally thought to myself, this thought I was gonna lay in bed, dying, and trying to get Siri or Alexa Alexa, call 911. And I'm sorry, I don't understand as I just laid there. Right. So that was my fear. I literally thought that I was going to be isolated and trapped in this townhome where I live, and nobody would know. And I was just gonna, that's just how I was gonna,

Guy: 37:26

When they finally did realize, the the crew from E.T. is gonna show up, right? In a tunnel. Your neighbors will be like, oh, he was a good guy. But...

Brent: 37:35

Yeah, I haven't seen him for a few days. And I was just gonna lay there. So what happened for me is I got to the point where, you know, when I knew that I wasn't doing as well, I reached out to some people said, like, I'm not okay. And the two things I learned is, like I said, one, it's okay to not be okay. And two people want to help, but you have to ask, and I was really open about it. Like, I mean, I called Jamie and I said, Jimmy, something's happening. I'm not okay. And Jamie was like, Okay, here's what we need to do. You, I don't want you to be alone, I need you to go, you know, stay at your brother's house. And we kind of laid out a plan. And that's kind of how I was had to deal with it was like, I had to admit that I wasn't okay. And something was wrong. Because I've talked to a lot of people, and I'm super open about it. And I don't know if it was anxiety or depression. I don't know if one causes the other or vice versa. But there was something I was really anxious with it. I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't even sit. I couldn't sleep. And I think that's what I, I just learned and talk to people, you just have to be open and ask for help about it. And in COVID caused all this. I mean, I remember talking to one of the doctors and he's like, I think here's a situational something has happened. I mean, we had earthquakes, we had COVID, we had the news was telling me that everyone's going to die. The stock market was tanking, I would go to the grocery store and half the shelves were empty. Yeah, I mean, even the products that nobody buys.

Jamie: 38:59

Yeah. And you know, what was interesting to me, too, is when and when we would be having these conversations. I was like, we have to even shift the definition of having COVID because he had COVID. He didn't test positive, but he was sick from COVID. And there's a lot of people in our society right now. Who are, you know, you, you kind of got through that dark tunnel, and there's still people who are in that tunnel of kind of that it feels like is there an end to this?

Guy: 39:26

Like, emotional COVID?

Jamie: 39:27

Yeah, because it's created a fear. I mean, I can be walking the dog, and someone who's more than six feet away from me is like walking on the other side of the street and pulling up her mask. And I just fear for kind of the sickness we all are going to have when this is over. Like we're afraid to connect now. We're afraid to interact,

Guy: 39:48

Right. Your friends become enemies.

Jamie: 39:56

But I think that we at some point, then have to start Just re-engaging with caution.

Guy: 40:02

And intention, right?

Brent: 40:05

Yeah. And I think that's where I got to I got to the point where, you know, I have a cousin who lives in Seattle, and she and I would talk every other day. And, you know, we used to talk about when we would first come home, we'd go to the grocery store, we'd come home, you'd strip down in the in your entryway, then go up and quickly shower and scrub everything off. Because you might have COVID germs on you. And that's how we lived. And, you know, I told her, I said, Hey, I went to the State Fair last weekend. And she's like, wow, that's, that's brave. And I was like, I have to find a happy medium, because COVID has done worse for me without getting COVID than if I think if I would have got COVID. Now, I know it's serious. And you got to be smart. But at some point, you just have to live life in a smart, educated way. And I think that's what I had to get to, because the other way was really bad.

Jamie: 40:55

Yeah. And so with that, going through such a difficult time, and having known you for so many years, who someone's, you're super optimistic, by nature, you're very positive by nature. And so, and I'm not your therapist, so I was your friend and working with you through this. But as your friend, it was hard to watch, because we're live in different states. And so you know, just trying to talk with you and, and see you through that. I'm curious what you learned about yourself, like, what did you what kind of understanding and insight did you gain into yourself through that experience?

Brent: 41:28

I mean, that's a great question. I go back to the whole. I am that guy who's always upbeat and happy and fun. I mean, even my boss called me one day, and she said, Hey, can I talk to you? And as I go, here it comes, where's the pink slip? And she said, You're not doing okay, are you? And I said, No, I'm fine. And she's like, you're not. And I said, well, as my boss, I'm getting all my projects done. I'm good. But as my friend, here's my situation. Yeah, here's, here's what I'm doing. I'm working, I'm working from home, look at me work. And she's like, no, I can tell in your voice. There's no life anymore. And a lot of people thought that. And it just kind of got to the point where I just realized that we just don't know what people are going through. And, and you just have to be open about it. I basically found four or five people that I just confided in. And I mean, I would call and say, I'm not doing good today, or I need help with this. Right. And I think that's the thing, you just have to be open with it because people do want to help. I don't know if I had any, like, Great learnings other than, you know, we're all human. We're all trying to get through this together. Life has ups and downs. I mean, I started out 2020 in the Canary Islands having the time of my life, and it's gone downhill from there, right? In fact, somebody said that the day, if 2020 was a condiment, it would be worse jessore... no, what is it? How do you say that? Worcestershire. Worst year ever sauce, or whatever it is. I was like, That is so true. That is so true. Right? And, and even though 2020 is the worst, and it I can't think of a worse year, but there are still some good things like people have shown love and compassion to me. I'm closer with my siblings, I'm closer with my parents. I mean, I call them every day, make sure they haven't gone anywhere, but Costco, that's their thing. And, and so I think even though it's been a crappy time, there's also some good that come out of it.

Jamie: 43:22

You can find that silver lining, but that's also something that you've always been able to do. And I think when you're stuck in the middle of that dark space, it's hard to remember that about yourself. And I think that's something we talked about often was, you know, I couldn't take the dark away from you. But I could remind you, like, this is gonna end and and the lights gonna come back on and you're gonna feel joy again. And, you know, as things would slowly get better, it was always like, okay, that's true. You know, and I think sometimes we need each other, to just hold on to the light for us until we can get to it.

Brent: 43:58

Yeah, I mean, every hour felt like a day, every day felt like a week, every week felt like a month, and it just felt like it was never going to end. I mean, I had this thought it was kind of humorous, but I thought, well, I, I can't go anywhere I have to stay around because who's gonna know to do what to do with my games? Like, is the shipment company gonna show up in my parents house and say, Hey, we got this container. like nobody knew but me. In kind of a crazy way. I that was the thought I had is like, I have to be here to receive them. And that's kind of what kept me going.

Jamie: 44:31

Whatever that has to be that kind of keeps you hanging on. And I think the big key is reaching out for support. And that takes a lot of courage to show up and say, I need some help. Even though typically, I'm the guy who doesn't really need help. And, and I think because of the kind of friend you are, it's easy for your friends to show up for you.

Guy: 44:52

And you said I had to become okay with not being okay. And that's something I find myself generally optimistic. And I had the same realization at some point, you know, it was, I'm not okay. And I'm upset about it. And then I have to be okay with it. Yeah. And then it kind of changed everything right? For me, the perspective shift said, I'm not okay. And that's okay. And I might not be okay, tomorrow. And that's still okay.

Brent: 45:19

Yeah. And I think for me, also, along those lines is you get to the stage of life, like, this isn't what I thought my life would be like, in my mid 40s. And, you know, I would sit there and watch every family doing their Tick Tock dance song. And, you know, the parents are dancing, and the kids come out, I was like, I want that. And that also added to it is like, my life is still great. It's just different than I thought it would be. It doesn't make it good or bad. It's just different. Because I'm sure some of those Tick Tock video people were like, I like to be sitting home watching Netflix, instead of doing this choreographed routine that my daughter is making me do. Right. So I had to tell myself that I don't have that family doing Tick tock, or doing my little video and, you know, challenging the neighbors. You're just home alone, and you had it, you had to just be okay with that. And I think the one thing that COVID did is it really shined the light on the differences that we do have as a as a people. And that was different. Like, I never thought I'd be mid 40s and not have a family at this point. And COVID brought that to light.

Guy: 46:24

So, not to be too punny. But yeah, how did COVID change your dating game?

Brent: 46:30

That's not a pun. Although a pun is a play on words. So we're gonna give you credit for trying. Truthfully, like, I'm sure there's a lot of dating going on out there. For me, I just shut it down. Like I was like, I can't be within six feet of you. Because I'm gonna get COVID.

Guy: 46:48

It makes it hard to get her in the car or go somewhere, right?

Brent: 46:52

Really? Get her in the car is the term we're using?

Jamie: 46:57

He's been out of the game for awhile.

Guy: 46:59

I've been out of the game.

Brent: 47:01

Yeah, we don't use that term, get her in the car, anymore. But no, for me it was like, Look, I just got to the point where like, I have some friends. And they were also in the same situation. And we kind of were each other's support group, right? So whether that's dating or hanging out, or whatever you want to call it? It wasn't one on one. But those people were kind of the people you spend time with. So I'm sure there are people killing it during COVID. I'm not killing it.

Jamie: 47:27

Well, I mean, you're coming out of it. And that's good news. You've got a couple games in the pipeline.

Brent: 47:36

So when I when I started coming out of this anxiety, depression, whatever we want to call it. I was like, you know what Christmas is when you sell games, right? So I got to get these two games done. And I did get them done. They're currently being produced right now. I'm hoping to get them back here shortly to get them in time to sell for Christmas. But I actually have both pictures up in my office because to me, it's kind of like a, I don't want to say a trophy or a celebration, but it signifies that I made it through this really difficult time. And I I feel like I'm back to be in me, right? In this new world, or whatever it is. And so that's kind of what as I look at those two products, I don't care if they... I do care if they sell.

Guy: 48:12

Can you tell us what they are?

Brent: 48:13

Yeah, one's called... I just did Pun Intended Too. I'm gonna have to get your copy to brush up a little bit guy in your puns because that was poor. And um, and then other one's called What's Your Price, which is just like a play on words like, what's your price to tickle the lady in front of you at the grocery store line? Right? How much do I have to pay you to do that? Right? Sounds like, Guy, you'd get her in the car for free.

Guy: 48:39

If she's willing.

Brent: 48:41

Yeah, so that's what I felt like. I've come out of it

Guy: 48:45

What kind of car? That's more interesting to me. What car that way. are we talking about?

Brent: 48:48

A Hyundai Sonata.

Jamie: 48:50

That's disappointing for him. Well, and we've been so happy. You've been so gracious to be part of our podcast today. And I think for one of the final questions is, you know, having known you for so long something that I was curious about when I thought about a good question to end on, is if you could go back to our 25 year old selves. Maybe not in a dance club in Monterrey, Mexico. But what advice would you give yourself? Or what would you tell him.

Brent: 49:18

I don't know. Workout more, probably. No, I don't like that. I don't like working out. I would say you just have to take chances and go for it. Because I think what happens is we all play life pretty safe. And then one day you wake up and you're like, I am 45 years old. How did this happen? Right? And I think that I would go back and say take chances. That's what I ended up doing with the games and I've been very happy and successful. I wish that there were more things in my life that I had taken that same chance because if you don't do anything, nothing happens. And what COVID has done is it is shine the spotlight on all those things that we haven't done, but the good thing is it's not the end And you know, we're gonna survive, we're gonna move forward. And there's still plenty of time to do these things. So that's kind of how I look at it as, What do I do moving forward? How do I spend more time with people I care about? How do I make more games? How do I, how do I make a difference in the world? And I know that's a little cliche. But for me, honestly seeing my game on a shelf, or reading a positive review, where someone said they had fun with their family, to me, that's making a little bit of a difference and making the world a little better. And I mean, I'm not curing cancer or anything like that. I mean, somebody wrote a game, this is awesome. And I was like, No, the cure of cancer would be awesome. This is just fun. And I think that's kind of what I would tell myself is just take chances, and spend time with people and involve people in your life. And I think that's how you're going to just make it through life having fun,

Jamie: 50:49

Awesome. Where can people buy your games?

Brent: 50:53

The best place to buy them is where all the buyers are, right? So Amazon, you can just search up the games, you can either search The Game Chef or you can search one of the games. And you can find it there. www.TheGameChef.com also has information on where you can buy them. And then you know, some retail stores around the country. You can also buy them.

Guy: 51:12

And do you do social media?

Brent: 51:14

I do social media.

Guy: 51:15

So if someone wanted to follow the next hot idea. Where would they follow you?

Brent: 51:18

I think at Facebook, it's@TheGameChef. I think on Instagram, it's @GameChefGames I think that's what they are.

Jamie: 51:26

Well, you've been a huge light in my life for many years. And we still play all your games, although we're not very punny at our house. So that's the only game we don't play it. We actually don't even know how to play it. We I told Brent while you're here, and let's play pun intended.

Brent: 51:40

She basically said it's not fun. How do we play the game? I will have to show them later.

Guy: 51:46

Were you on Amazon making reviews last night?

Brent: 51:49

Is your name Karen?

Guy: 51:53

Nice to meet you, Brent. I love hearing stories of people who start businesses or have come up with something and it starts as you know, a side thing and turns into this passion you can follow and learn from and make a legacy in your life. So congratulations on your success. Again, nice to meet you.

Brent: 52:15

Thank you very much

Jamie: 52:16

Thanks for being here.

Guy: 52:17

Thanks for joining us on The Davenport. Thanks so much for listening this week. Stay connected by following us on Instagram or Facebook at the Davenport podcast. For more information on coaching services with Guy, visit his website, TheCoachGuy.net. For additional information regarding counseling services, the Daring Way Curriculum, or relationship counseling, please go to JamiePyattLCSW.com.

Jamie: 52:52

The Davenport podcast is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. Although Jamie is a licensed clinical social worker and guy as a professional life coach. The information and opinions shared by the hosts and their guests are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment. The information on this show does not create a client therapist or coaching relationship and should not be taken as professional advice or guidance. Please consult with your physician or qualified health care provider regarding any medical or mental health conditions.