Repair vs. Resolution: A Healthy Marriage Requires Regular Maintenance To Keep It Going Strong

Guy: *** Please Note: 0:03

This transcription was done through computer software, so there could be errors throughout the text. ***

Guy: 1:12

Welcome back to the Davenport. Hi, Jamie.

Jamie: 1:14

Hi, Guy.

Guy: 1:15

How are you doing this week?

Jamie: 1:17

I'm good. It's been a good week. I didn't see as many clients this week because I've been in a training a relationship training. It's always fun. I'm a student of Terry real. So I've been observing him work with like five different couples this week. Oh, very good. You powerful. Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing. Oh, that's

Guy: 1:35

fun. Yeah,

Jamie: 1:36

I always feel sorry for the couples I see after him. Because I'm like, Oh, I have all these new ideas. It's effective. I'm

Guy: 1:45

ready to go. Yeah,

Jamie: 1:46

it's really good stuff. And it was so fun. Because a friend of mine in another state has also therapists, I was texting her like, Oh, I'm in Terry's training today. And she was like I am do so we were like able to text all through it and give our two cents on what was happening. And so it was fun. I really, really not all trainings are is that enjoyable? Yeah, these are some of my favorites. Because they're experiential. You're actually watching the work. So he's written the book, right on a lot of the things I practice as a clinician. And so watching him implement his own theories and practice real time with real time with real clients. Yeah, so these clients, he's really expensive. I mean, he's been around for a long time. And he, he's not cheap to see. So these couples, and usually it's kind of do or die with couples who go to him, they're like, if this doesn't work, we're getting divorce kind of thing. Okay, so they get a huge discount to work with him in front of the therapists. And because they know they're going to have an audience purpose, learning from him while he works with them. And so it's a good way for couples to see him. But they don't even see us as you say they don't know you're there. Yes, we can. I mean, chat is disabled. You can't q&a window the operating room. Yes. So they don't even know where they're but then after each couple, no, Junior, no journeyman said no to your popcorn. So after each couple, then we can go in and chat and q&a with Terry. So it's awesome. It's a great, it's a really good continuing education that I love. So

Guy: 3:17

yeah, that's very cool. Yeah, I did one. I participated in a dare to lead at Brene Brown. Oh, yeah. workshop, I haven't done dare to lead yet. And that's the second time I've participated in, in anticipation be able to facilitate or CO facilitate going forward. So I'm officially digitally trained. And it's it's fun to work with the group's we worked with some municipalities, some city government. Yeah. And so it's, I love the work and I love the content. It's a great refresher. Yeah, just so many good. Just takeaways.

Jamie: 3:50

Yeah. And it was funny because Terry and his work and Terry will reference Bernie and Bernie will reference Terry, it's funny, and, and but they're, you know, a lot of these couples will talk about shame. And he's like, ah, Brene Browns ruin this word for everyone, you know, because he would talk about healthy shame, which is what Brene refers to as guilt, guilt, right? And so he's like, now I can't even use the word right?

Guy: 4:14

It's kind of true. We do. Yeah, Shame.

Jamie: 4:17

Shame is a bad word. And so it is funny because you know, that healthy shame that he refers to in couples counseling is guilt. Like it's that you know, I want to change I want to do better I need to make this better. Yeah. Yeah. So it gave me a lot to think about for our topic today. Yeah.

Guy: 4:35

Well, let's, before we jump into that topic, I always reminders you know, if you are not a subscriber, please, if you're listening down, you have not subscribed please subscribe. Yeah, so you get the downloads automatically. And if you love the show, please start with your friends.

Jamie: 4:48

Yes, sir. And follow us on social media.

Guy: 4:52

Yeah, well, let's jump into our topics. What are we talking about today? Okay. So

Jamie: 4:56

this is going to be very relational based right? We're all in relationship, whether it's a student, whether it's romantic relationship, parent, child relationship, co workers, whatever. But there's a tool that we refer to and this is a from a lot of garments work. But he talks a lot about repair. And when I favorite pair of being a car guy that you are, you think of

Guy: 5:22

repair, it's part of maintenance. And it's fixing things, right, which something is broken. My mentality loves the fix it so yeah, it sounds like obvious, yes, right, repair something, right. And if they're damaged something, you break something up, you fix,

Jamie: 5:37

right. And when you're in couples counseling, and I use the word repair process versus resolution, or finding resolve, you know, lots of times people are like, I want this resolved, I want this to be tied up and a bow put on it and put away and it doesn't come up again. And unfortunately, in our relationships, you know, like 75% of our conflict is perpetual. Like, it's just something like, oh, yeah, this is this is our thing that always comes up and create some conflict,

Guy: 6:07

or like with the car, right, you can fix one thing. And there's something else. Yeah, I just had a dead battery this week. Yeah. On a car. That should have been totally fine. Yeah. And you can't drive the car if you can't start the car. And then you fix that. And the next day, like, what's that noise? I haven't heard that noise before. But I just bought$150 battery, like it should be fine. Yeah. So there's, it's it is a constant state. Yes. And that's why I like called maintenance, because it's a bunch of little repairs,

Jamie: 6:35

right. And so in relational terms, that's a good way of looking at it, because repair is less about fixing what's broken, and more about getting back on track. Okay. And so if you think about that, in our relationships, we do that with our kids. We do that with each other, you know, in our families and things like that. And so people who are really good at relationships, they repair early, and they repair all the time. Because what's the problem? And if you go back to like, our first or second episode, when we talked about people waiting six years to go to marriage counseling, so the 911 Yeah, and the reality is, most people wait five or six years. So they'll think I'm gonna get a counselor.

Guy: 7:17

I'm on a car analogy, or they trade the car. Yeah,

Jamie: 7:19

right. Okay.

Guy: 7:24

And then there are people that like, I'm not going to fix anything, like fix anything. Yeah, did it?

Jamie: 7:28

Yeah. Those are the leasers.

Guy: 7:32

That's true. That's usually that's really like, you have a friend that does that repeatedly. You're like, I don't think you're getting the value out of this that you think you are, you should probably just lease Yeah, cuz you don't want to own the car. Yeah. The person wants to own the car puts the work in, and they want it to last. Yeah, that's a great, yeah. Are you leasing your relationship right now? Right collar.

Jamie: 7:57

And so I think when we talk about repair, people think, oh, no, something's broken. And so it's just reframing that to like, No, we just want to get back on track. Right. And so it's getting back to connection. Okay, that healthy connection. And so by doing it early, and often means that we recognize that we're gonna have conflict, and that's normal. And we're gonna have annoyances and disagreements. And that doesn't mean something is wrong. But we have to address it. And we have to learn how to repair things so we can kind of get back on track. And so what's interesting is, when you get this, how Gottman describes it, Gottman describes a repair attempt as any attempt or action, silly or otherwise, that prevents negativity from escalating out of control.

Guy: 8:46

Interesting. So the focus is on the negativity. And and kind of managing that,

Jamie: 8:51

right. So it's interesting, because this is how I think of it. So as couples get into repair process, every couple you know, I talk about the dance a lot, right? Where each couple has a dance they do. You pull away the other does the chase or whatever, you know, you go quiet, the other gets loud. It's just there's a dance that couples do,

Guy: 9:14

or something. We call it the show in our relationship. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Jamie: 9:18

Good. Yeah. Well, in every pair attempt, it's kind of a game, like, Oh, this is what's happening. I know what to do to ease the pressure or to laugh or to be able to get back into connection or to not take ourselves so seriously. And that's a repair attempt. Okay, right. So, I think and that's where we're changing our dance or our stance, so to speak. And so

Guy: 9:43

they're making fine tune adjustments going Yeah, Running Man now into the cabbage patch,

Jamie: 9:47

right? And then all of a sudden, I can laugh at the situation or I can be mad and you know, whatever. So it's interesting because I can remember years ago talking to a couple about the harm in the silent treatment, okay, and I saw the wife get really uncomfortable. And I was like, Well, this sounds, you know, like, I've hit a nerve. And she's like, what's my favorite weapon? You know? And I said, well, like, tell

Guy: 10:15

me how long tell me, you're gonna take this away from me?

Jamie: 10:18

And I said, well tell me like how long you can do the silent treatment. And she's like, Oh, we've gone like nine days. And I was thinking, wait, you live in the same house? You're raising kids together, and you've gone nine days without speaking. I was like, That is some serious willpower.

Guy: 10:38

Kudos. Yeah.

Jamie: 10:39

I mean, it's pretty powerful. Right? Yeah. And so then when I say, how is that working for you? Yeah. It's not like, oh, yeah, it works. Great.

Guy: 10:48

That's amazing. Nine days, I'm

Jamie: 10:50

out of that I get what I need. And I feel more connected. It's not it just doesn't get you. But a repair attempt is recognizing like, oh, I want to give you the silent treatment right now. Actually verbalizing that my I really want to shut down right now. Like, I'm so upset. Yeah. And when you're in a healthy space, your partner can say, what is it that you need from me right now? What will help the situation? Yeah, like, we're not gonna fix it. Like, I annoyed you, I can't go back in time, or I was late, or I didn't pay the bill, or whatever it is, we actually can't change that. So the repair attempt is, what can I give you right now? To soothe you to help you? Does that make sense? Yeah. So it's not actually fixing it. It's getting back to connection.

Guy: 11:39

So cuz I want to box in that word repair because it does feel like you're, you're fixing things, but it's not the end. So it's not like combat?

Jamie: 11:51

How about work caring for something? Because yeah, it's going to happen again, you're going to be late not pay a bill or whatever, you know, like, so people say, What's the difference between repair and resolving something? Because people a lot of times, maybe that's fine. Maybe I need the other side of the desk. Yeah. Cuz they're like, I want to resolve this issue. Like, it'll never happen again. Right? I don't want to argue about money ever again, in our marriage. Oh,

Guy: 12:17

I see. Okay, that perspective helps. Because I my coach says that's probably not realistic.

Jamie: 12:22

Yeah. And, and people always say like, it's funny, even in this training, he's, he has said a million times. And I've heard myself say this a million times to clients, because I train with him as much as I can, is you can be right or you can be married?

Guy: 12:38

Well, we we want to make a black and white. Right. Yeah, are very concrete. And so by saying, Well, this is resolved, yeah, whenever I'm talking about this again,

Jamie: 12:47

right? And then you're setting yourself up for huge disappointment when you Correct? Correct, which actually can lead to contempt and all those things that can get you into dangerous water. So the repair attempt is like, hey, so next time this happens next time, when money is an issue for us, this is what I need from you. I have said this to my own husband, when I start to shut down and withdraw because it's going to happen again. I'm sure it is. I know it's not the first thing in your mind, like, Oh, she probably wants a hug from me because I'm not going to ask for a hug. I'm not gonna I don't act like I want a hug. But that's probably when I really need a hug. And so if you can kind of get through your barrier of me not being warm, fuzzy and

Guy: 13:30

overlook all of the anger on my face. It's a cold, Prickly, so put it

Jamie: 13:35

out. It's just like, but all of a sudden it bridges it right. So then he comes in, it's a repair attempt. He just hugs me. And then I can, okay, we're gonna be okay.

Guy: 13:46

That's a great conversation, I'm internalizing this thinking in my own relationship. And that's a great conversation, right? Hey, when I get triggered,

Jamie: 13:55

yeah. And don't have it. Don't have this conversation when you're not gonna go by but talk about your repair process together. Right? How do you do it when I'm triggered? This is what I'm learning. I need.

Guy: 14:09

Yeah, this would feel really good. Or this diffuses me quickly, or even quickly, just diffuses me

Jamie: 14:16

this is what gets me back on track. Yeah, right. It's asking yourself that it's not I didn't fix it. I never gonna be annoyed about money again, that or whatever the issue is, right? It just gets me back on track back into connection with you. And it's not necessarily resolution.

Guy: 14:34

Yeah, cuz that's when you say connection. That's the that's the key for me. Yeah. I'm usually a lean into connection person. And I know what I want to disconnect. I'm definitely triggered. Right? Because that's not my my Aaron's nodding that's, that's not my normal state. Yeah. And so when I do disconnect, I have to do a quick assessment. I go, go get the repair manual out. Be like what does What's What's the saying here? Right, right. And yeah, so I, I can see what that's resolution versus repair. Yeah, there's expectation with resolution that it's done, right? When I can talk about this, it's, it's fixed. Yeah. And repair is that maintenance that's required to keep things going keep, like you said, keep it on track,

Jamie: 15:20

and you can fix the car, you can replace the battery, you can, like you said, right. But in a relationship, you don't fix a human being, you don't fix it. You just, you're learning to adapt, you're learning to understand that person, you're learning to understand yourself in relationship to that person. Yeah. And so the repair attempts, meaning getting back to connection, getting things back on track, is what do I need to do in this moment? Like a? Is it gonna help if I yell at this person? Probably not. Is that gonna? You know, it will? It

Guy: 15:53

doesn't feel good?

Jamie: 15:54

Well, well, seven days of silence help the situation? Probably not, that's not going to get us back to a place of connection. Now, it's not about just saying, Okay, well, whatever, you know, I'm not gonna it's not about being a doormat,

Guy: 16:08

right? It's still saying no emotion, no reaction.

Jamie: 16:12

It's saying, What do I need in this moment? And I think when we can be generous partners, we can look at our partner and recognize when they're hurting, even when we have caused the hurt, right saying to them, I'm sorry, you're hurting. I don't want to hurt you. What do you need right now? And you have to be in a generous place as the receiver of that and recognizing that as a repair tent. Now, I've watched couples shut each other down, right? I've seen I've seen a partner make every pair attempt and the spouse is like, looking for justice. And validation of I need you to validate for me Oh, he is wrong or no for the therapist. Oh.

Guy: 16:54

Judge Yeah. Like plead a pleading their case in front of them. Right.

Jamie: 16:58

And, and that's playing that victim role. Right. Like, I need that validation. So clearly, and one of the things Terry says a lot is like who's right, who's wrong? Who cares? You know, and he's like, it doesn't matter. Do you want this relationship? Or do you want to be right? Yeah. And, and so part of it is, if you want to be right, you're not going to be married long. And so that repair process becomes so important. And what do I need right now to be okay, with not being right or not getting what I want? Does that make sense? It does.

Guy: 17:32

It makes me think of a text that I sent to my wife yesterday

Jamie: 17:37

was looking up on their phone

Guy: 17:41

the exact words were I'm sorry for acting like a but because I was actively not repairing there's something happened and I disconnected. Yeah. And I knew it was hurtful. And and then I think I'm getting better at making it quick. I'd like to do said, you know, how quickly can you repair? Yeah, get back on track. And I can see the track. Yeah. And there's sometimes I'd like to wander a little off track. Yeah. I don't know if it's, uh, I don't know. I can totally understand myself. Sometimes. It says the coach right here, man. And and I'm like, maybe I just want to be out here in the week. You want to power? Yeah. And then I'm like, now the track is better than the track is easier. And I love someone on the track. That's not feeling too good right now. And she's really important to me. So. Yeah, the text comes out. I'm like, Yeah, I was. Yeah, that was kind of a bad move. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. No.

Jamie: 18:41

And sometimes, like, my husband who can go surfing in, in a crisis, right? Sometimes I have to say, Hey, I'm on the track, and I'm hurting. Yeah. And he's like, Oh, I know. I did. Yeah, I have to point it out. Right. But the repair attempt for him is like, I'm so sorry. i That's not what I want you to feel. And so he can get into repair attempt really quick. Sometimes I have to point out like, hey, cuz I can feel super off track. And he doesn't. So it's even checking in with where your partner is, you know, and being honest about it, like, Hey, I'm not doing okay. I'm not in connection with you right now. Right. And, and it doesn't have to be a fight. It's just about being honest about where we're at right now and what we need from our partner, right? And,

Guy: 19:30

and most of us if we're if we're forthcoming, right? I don't think Aaron's ever been like, Oh, I didn't think you're being bad at all. Like, oh, yeah, that was yeah, thanks for acknowledging that. Yeah. You know, we can own our mistakes, we can own our behavior.

Jamie: 19:47

Yeah. And when you own it, you disarm it. Right? And so it's no longer weaponizing your relationship, and that becomes really powerful.

Guy: 19:56

Yeah, there's there's a collaborative feeling. Yeah. You want

Jamie: 19:59

to go South quick, just say Yeah, but you made me mad. Oh, yeah, but you,

Guy: 20:06

maybe you're good on your tracks back off off road here. Right,

Jamie: 20:09

right. So it's or you know, and sometimes it's like, well, you're stressing me out, or you're doing this and it's like, Hey, where's the personal responsibility in your own life, you know, of how you're feeling? You're in charge of that, not me. And so it's really important that we kind of stay in our lane, so to speak, but recognize where our partner is to that maybe, you know, they're swerving, or they're,

Guy: 20:36

you know, yeah, that's that. verbalization right. Yeah. If you're like, I'm feeling agitated, or I'm feeling Yeah, I don't know why. But today, for some reason, I'm just off. Yeah, right. That's probably not the best time to then talk like heavy finances or, you know, big life changing decisions. Yeah. You might be like, Hey, let's give it some space. Yeah, let's,

Jamie: 20:53

let's talk, I have a handout that I give couples from Gottman, and it's a Gottman repair checklist. And we can put it on for our Patreon members, there's that we can link them to so they can look at it if they want. But in the checklist, it's funny because it feels like a new language to them. They're like, who would say this? Someone who's trying so right, someone who is trying, I'm like, Give me Give me this on your fridge? Like, just try, right. So like, if when you're trying to say I feel it's really hard for people sometimes to be like, I feel

Guy: 21:28

like, like I feel so like my 10 year old. I feel angry right now. Right? He does a good job of being able to recognize he did he did not like that his only reference on the podcast is when he said he was angry. I got that feedback

Jamie: 21:40

directly. And Jamie's really proud of you.

Guy: 21:43

He's like, Dad, really the only time you mentioned my name is when I say I'm angry. Say

Jamie: 21:47

he likes all the words and powers. I like he's a he's an engineer. Right. But

Guy: 21:52

what's interesting, very clear, though, like, yeah, no, it's clear to ask, you're not guessing. Clarify that please. Oh, got it.

Jamie: 21:59

Yeah, your teenage daughters. Actually, there's not a lot of guessing either. I'm like, Oh, you're mad. You're irritated with me? No, but

Guy: 22:06

you can decipher right? Yeah.

Jamie: 22:08

I'm like, Are you mad at me? Are you mad at a friend? Right?

Guy: 22:10

There's there's always a clarifying question. I feel like what Jake, it's just like, he doesn't care who it's at. Right? That's what I feel right now.

Jamie: 22:17

Yeah. And it's good. You don't want him to lose that. But what's interesting is when couples look at this repair checklist, at first, they're like, uncomfortable. So one of the things would be you know, I'm feeling you know, you want to share what you're feeling. And so, a couple of the suggestions I'll read, like, I'm getting scared. So if you think about that, instead of waiting till you're scared and shut down, and maybe someone's getting loud and big, and you're like, Hey, I'm getting scared right now. That's a repair attempt, like, Hey, before this, before this gets off off road, you know, let's settle down. Or instead of getting loud, and you're, you know, pointing out it's just saying, Hey, I'm, I'm feeling scared. If my spouse says that to me, or my child says that to me, I'm gonna hear that. Yeah, tell me more. Right? Or when it comes to sorry, how about before we

Guy: 23:11

move on to the incident in Brene Brown's work, she talks about emotions, and how the average human has such a small range of words that we assign to emotions. Yeah, I'm angry. I'm sad. I'm happy. I'm, you know. And if you think of the English language, there's so many words to describe how someone can feel. Yeah. And yet we out of habit. We don't use those

Jamie: 23:34

maybe sad, angry, mad. Oh, it was funny. Because Sunday, I had to do this presentation on emotional resilience. And it was a bunch of adult men and women. And I said, Listen, when you, you're so irritated with your kids, when you say how was school? They're like, Fine. How was your day? Fine. But when you talk to each other, like, Hey, how are you feeling? I'm fine, fine. Yeah, that's fine is not a feeling.

Guy: 23:58

We're reinforcing that the words are unimportant, right.

Jamie: 24:01

And so shout out to Tara, my friend who had me come and do this presentation. We're walking out to the car, and I saw every, and I don't mean this to be a broad Paint Brush about men. But every man in there was like, fine is a feeling

Guy: 24:18

like operating and fine. Like, imagine

Jamie: 24:20

if you were to share with your spouse something more than fine. It actually is more intimate. Fine is not an intimate emotion. Right? Right. And so say you're trying to say I'm sorry, or or get to that place. It you you do a good job of saying that, like I released it, you know, dad really stepped in that. That's a repair attempt. Right? That's just saying, you know, it. It's not necessarily I'm really sorry, but that's how your kids are going to feel it's gonna feel like an apology. Like dad stepped in it. Yeah. Or, you know, that's, that's a repair attempt. Right. That's part of that. Sorry.

Guy: 24:57

There's humility there too, right? Yeah, cuz if you're coming I'm sorry, it means that I've had some reflection on what I may have said or done. And I've thought about it. And I would like to I'd like a second try. Yeah, I'd like to revisit that. And I, if I could choose, I would potentially do something different.

Jamie: 25:16

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry, as part of that checklist, getting to yes, as part of that, as well. And so an example of that is, you know, let's compromise here. How many times do we get start digging in our heels? We're talking about something I gotta win. Yeah, like maybe like, for example, we're at Home Depot looking at carpet or Lowe's. And my husband's like, why, like this lovely date, by the way? I know, it's horrible. I am not good at this stuff. Like I did not major in interior design. So this is like, you want to see me at my all time low and self confidence. Watch me walking out of a home goods store, like, I am just like, I don't I'm paralyzed by all the choices. I don't know what's gonna go together. And so then my husband holds up this carpet swatch. It's like, well, I like. And I was like, Well, I do know, I don't like

Guy: 26:09

that is the one I would.

Jamie: 26:11

So I was like, How are we ever gonna pick out carpet?

Guy: 26:15

I can't wait to see the bathroom.

Jamie: 26:18

It's gonna be a hodgepodge.

Guy: 26:21

Eclectic would be the right word. But yes,

Jamie: 26:24

that's very in right now. Yes. So I think you know, when you're getting to yes, it's like, let's compromise here, or this problem is not so very big in the big picture. Right? Like, even with our bathroom fiasco, my husband was able to zoom out faster than I was, to me, it felt really big, and that it's gonna be big for a long time. But really, because of the way my husband handled it. I mean, hearing them a week later, 17 years ago, this would still feel like the end of the universe to me. I'm like, fine. I'm like, you know, I was telling our guests, you know, and my brother's coming to stay on Wednesday. And some people are staying there tonight. And I said, Well, you're still booking. Yeah, two stars went to one. There's a bad

Guy: 27:11

we have a porta potty outside. And there may not be any carpet on the floors. At the gym. It's kind of like a cabin. Yeah, come on. Rustic.

Jamie: 27:21

California beach

Guy: 27:22

rustic book now.

Jamie: 27:25

Right. Right. It's so you know, that's part of it. Get into Yeah,

Guy: 27:29

that's a testament to you. Right. Oh, house doesn't matter. You're crazy. You

Jamie: 27:32

know, it's geographics. Oh, we have this friend that loves 10 miles from the beach. No kidding. Anyway, the next one is I need to calm down. So there's different ways of you know, taking that time out.

Guy: 27:46

So that's like a triggering word for me. Because if someone tells me to do that, that's Oh,

Jamie: 27:50

me too.

Guy: 27:53

Give me more. Tell me, I

Jamie: 27:54

need to calm down.

Guy: 27:55

I'm not gonna listen to Terry telling me to calm down. It's kind of

Jamie: 27:59

like, part of when you need to calm down is like, with my clients, if they get into abusive exchanges at times, I'll actually teach them to use one of these that says, can you make this safer for me? Like when they feel it escalating, okay, it's like, Hey, can you make this safer for me? Sometimes, if you're not in that abusive place, it can even be like, I really need a hug right now. Or I need to take a break for a minute, I will reengage in 10 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever. Yeah. Or can we talk about something else for a few minutes and come back to this?

Guy: 28:31

So the calm down can be towards someone else? Or it can be personal like management?

Jamie: 28:37

Yeah. Because, you know, part of say your, say your spouse is on the phone and you're trying to talk, you could say something like, this is really important to me, Could you could you listen, okay, well, I share this or whatever. And they might give them a choice. Yeah. Yeah. So it's part of that is, you know, kind of, I can feel myself getting more irritated. And I'm trying to find a way to calm down. And then there's the stop action. And

Guy: 29:02

I guess, on that, too, if you are someone like me that hears the words, you need to calm down, and like hit the ceiling. Yeah. Right. That might be somewhere to get curious about what's triggering a trigger.

Jamie: 29:17

But when someone says, Hey, I, I need this to feel like a safer conversation. Yeah, that to me would not trigger me, it would make me more curious, like, oh, gosh, I'm wondering, that's not creating safety for the person to be expressive or to want to be in conversation with me. So sometimes things like that, and it gives you a big list like Well, again, we'll put this link on Patreon because there's a lot of different options

Guy: 29:42

and this has gotten or is this, this is gonna go okay.

Jamie: 29:45

And then stop action is probably my favorite, but it's also really hard. It sounds like I might be wrong here. Right, I'm stopping this like, okay, like I might be wrong or I I'm feeling flooded. Or please stop. You know, you're asking pause. Yes. And it's kind of like a timeout. It is. It could be a timeout. Yeah. Or it's even just saying, Hey, we're getting off track, right? And this is really common in couples, you're, you start to have conflict. And then you're like, well, and then yesterday, and I call it the fish net. Like when you see these guys go deep sea fishing, and they cast the net, you know? And I'm like, don't don't cast the net. Yeah, just we're staying on what happened today? I think guilty of this. And I'm like,

Guy: 30:33

20 minutes later, you're like, what are we talking about?

Jamie: 30:35

It's like, I thought we were talking about the fossa. Like, now we're talking about last year. The shoes

Guy: 30:41

again? Well, I think in coaching, I use let's check in. Yeah, I can just as a way to take a break. Yeah, it doesn't mean stop talking about you're talking about we may continue with that same exact topic. Yeah. It's just check in. Is this the intent of what you wanted to share? Yeah. And is this the direction kind of the agenda of what we're accomplishing?

Jamie: 31:02

Right? Like, if I feel like my husband's getting defensive, then I'm able now to be like, he's feeling like, I'm criticizing him, right? So I can take a step back and be like, are you okay? Like, what is this feeling like for you? I'm I actually really am not wanting to be critical. So tell me why you're feeling defensive. I'll get cute, more curious about that. Rather than like, why are you getting defensive?

Guy: 31:24

But you can definitely throw fuel on that fire.

Jamie: 31:27

And so, again, that's the repair attempt, right? Hey, tell me about why you're feeling defensive. I'm actually just wanting to share this feeling. I it's not a criticism. It's not. And so trying to create that safety around. Yeah. And

Guy: 31:40

the way to reframe that even maybe, to keep it even less judgmental, right, is just say, Hey, I just want check in how are you feeling? Yeah. What are you feeling? Right? Yeah, that's a great thing. Let them name it. Yeah. Versus being like, Hey, you look defensive, or you

Jamie: 31:53

have a Toby is in therapy a lot is, How does that make you feel? Yeah, when I say that, yeah. It's just what how does that landing? Right? Or if if I have a couple of when I'm sharing something, and I asked the spouse, like, how does that make you feel when he says that when you hear that, right, so it's important for everyone to hear how that landed? Yeah, you know, so that's an important one. So that stop action one is a big one. And then the appreciation, I appreciate, I know, this isn't your favorite thing to do to talk about our conflict or to talk about money. So I really appreciate that you took the time to do it. Or I know, you know, I know you hate yard work. So I really appreciate you taking the time to do this with me. Yeah, cuz

Guy: 32:35

it's acknowledging that the other person is there, and that you see them and that you acknowledge their effort.

Jamie: 32:41

And even in conflict, that appreciation can sound like I see your point. I think I understand. Or, yeah, that's a different way of looking at it. It's acknowledging that he the different you

Guy: 32:53

never, never say, Oh, that's interesting.

Jamie: 32:58

Why would you think Yeah. Are you being serious?

Guy: 33:04

There's so many inflammatory ways that you can put that same sentence that

Jamie: 33:08

we've all done, or we wouldn't be laughing about it. Right? Guilty. That's why we're all guilty. Yeah, we're all guilty. But part of it is, the more we learn that when we do things like that, we are actually off track for longer periods of time. And so what happens when we get off track is we can stay off track so long, that we forgot what it feels like to be back on track and connected. And so then that's when you start getting into resentment or contempt and start thinking, I think it's time for a new car. And guess what a new car trade in time, a new car has a battery that dies. Go flat happens it and so I always joke that we can think this is gonna be easier with someone else. It's not as our stuff surfaces in any relationship. And so does and I think

Guy: 33:57

the key word there is our stuff. Yeah, right. Yeah. You're, you didn't trade yourself in you're, you're bringing the same behaviors to the next relationships? Do you think that changing relationships is what's gonna fix it? Yeah, in some cases, it's a it's a different mix. And so it does work. In most cases. It's inner work. Yeah. And the two partners that really can transform that relationship.

Jamie: 34:20

Yeah. And it's funny, because, you know, God man's big thing. I mean, he has his all research based. Yeah. And he says that the happiest couples are the ones who are in repair all the time, who just make those efforts all the time. And I think that because we have to get away from that idea that something's broken. If it's being repaired. Yes. It's like, oh, we're off track.

Guy: 34:44

It's been adjusted.

Jamie: 34:45

Yeah. And so I am willing to say, oh, I can see your point. That's a repair attempt, or, Oh, I stepped in it. That's a repair attack. You know, it's recognizing that there very little and subtle it's not like we had a huge fight this how we repair it. You know, although that's hard to get, right, and that can be part of it. But I think a lot of times when people at least by the time they get to my office, they want resolution. And I'm like, actually, that's not what you're gonna pay me to do. Because I'm not actually going to resolve anything for you. There's a very, there's very few things that you find resolution like, I won't tolerate abuse, I won't work with a couple who are actively abusing each other, like that's abusive, that relationship actually should end. And so those things are pretty black and white. Right, right. Like, yeah, there's resolved, you do not abuse another human being. But all the other stuff. I'm like, actually, what you're going to come here to learn is how to repair and how to get back on track how to get back into connection. But you have to teach people that idea.

Guy: 35:48

Yeah, I think something that's, I love this topic. And I think something that is helpful to set the stage is this mindset of playfulness, being willing to try things. Yeah, you know, if you can come into agreement with your partner, or whoever it is that you're engaging with in relation, and say, Hey, this can be a safe place, we're gonna try some things. And there's nothing embarrassed about if no ego, there's no judgment. And if we can both agree to that, then that lets go. Yeah, it's that playfulness to say, I may not be doing this, right. And but I'm gonna try some things. And I'm going to see what works. And I'm going to check in continually. And our goal is to get to a better place.

Jamie: 36:33

I had a couple of years ago, like really early in my career, that they when they would fight, they would go into the bathroom, and look at each other in the mirror and fight. Okay, and he was like, because you can't take yourself that seriously for too long. Like they're looking at each other. Like, really, we're like standing in the bathroom arguing about who put gas in the car last or whatever, right? Yeah, he's like, it just we couldn't get that escalated. So we'd like go in the bathroom. And you're like, check in the mirror, you know, and I was like, I mean, I don't know if it would work for me. Just feel like, but it worked for them. They just had this system. And I'm like, I'm sure they had lots of laughs yaning in that bathroom. But also were able to get into repair pretty fast, because they're just like, yeah, like, they weren't looking directly at each other. They're looking at each other through this mirror. And they're just like, it just deflected and kind of broke down the barrier for them.

Guy: 37:22

It made it made it a safe place to be silly and fun and try things. Yeah.

Jamie: 37:26

And so again, that's part of that curiosity, how do we repair? What works for me when my partner does this? And what works for my kids? When I do you know, for me, when I can go in and say, You know what, I'm really sorry, will you forgive me? My daughter has never said get out. She's she's like, You know what? And actually, she'll take her own ownership. She's like, No, I'm sorry, too. I was being a brat or I was, you know, whatever.

Guy: 37:53

That's the truth. Most times when you come in humble, yeah. And in an effort to defuse and an effort to own your your behavior, nine times out of 10, the other side, returns in kind,

Jamie: 38:05

right. And I think what we're ultimately trying to do is build meaningful relationships that are full of trust and intimacy and kindness. And if that's truly what we want, we have to act from that place. And that's what allows us to say, Yeah, I'd rather be in connection with you than in contention. I'd rather competition, right? And I'd rather be in connection with you than be right. Yeah. So I can let this go. Because it feels so much better to be in connection with you than to be right. Or to prove my point.

Guy: 38:38

Right. And when you can let go. Yeah. Oh, the weights gone? Yeah. Right. Think of how freeing that is? Yeah, anything going on in life? If you can just say, hey, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna detach from the outcome in service of being true to myself and being generous to my partner. Yeah, good things come from that.

Jamie: 38:58

No, yeah. No, I think it's good. And I really think it's, it's getting out of the mindset that repairing something's broken, it's just getting back into a healthier state with your relationships. And so I just think when we act from that place, we behave in a better way. And so the repair place is something that's ongoing, you're never done repairing. We're just I feel like, this is something or someone's made the comment like, Oh, you must have this most amazing marriage and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Well, I I feel really proud of our marriage. But we have to work at it. And it takes a lot of work and we're in repair a lot of the time we're good at repairing Yeah, and and I think my husband's really good at repair he doesn't stay in that disconnected place. He doesn't like that place and I don't like that place. And so we can get into ritual. Really turned to your toolbox quick now. Yeah. Doesn't mean I don't step in it. Yeah, and off the rails, but I just don't like how it feels out there. So after like you're on the weeds, you're like, oh, this doesn't feel good. I want to get back on the track. And so that, you know, for the sake, there's, I mean, there's books written about this stuff. So this is a very Reader's Digest version repair. And you can read about it in perspective, I

Guy: 40:19

feel like we just had like a peek into a therapy session. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Jamie: 40:24

I mean, I spend a session on this issue with couples, and understanding what a repair is a repair attempt, and that it's something you should be doing kind of all throughout the day as you're feeling things or things come up for you, because we get so triggered so easily. And sometimes we like to blame that on someone or blame that on our partner or our kids versus what's happening with me. And what do I need to do to get what I need from my partner? And how do I ask for that?

Guy: 40:51

Maintain responsibility and control over our actions? Yeah, that's his, this is great. Thank you for the insights into the topic.

Jamie: 41:00

So just practice, practice, simple practice. And, you know, we'll we'll post the link for the Patreon members, because I think it's a interesting list to

Guy: 41:08

look at. Yeah, that's awesome. I hope everyone's enjoyed the topic today. If you have any ideas or thoughts on repairs, about on repairs,

Jamie: 41:17

repairing things that are broken, just off track,

Guy: 41:21

send, send us your feedback. We'd love to hear from you. Yes, and thanks, everyone for tuning in. And we will talk to you next week. you later. Thanks so much for listening this week. Stay connected by following us on Instagram or Facebook at the Davenport podcast. For more information on coaching services with Guy, visit his website, TheCoachGuy.net. For additional information regarding counseling services, the Daring Way Curriculum, or relationship counseling, please go to JamiePyattLCSW.com. The Davenport Podcast is a production of the Davenport Education Group. Show hosts are Guy Balogh and Jamie Pyatt. Our producer and editor is Erin Balogh. Our outreach manager and production coordinator Monica Strang. Thanks for listening.

Jamie: 42:13

The Davenport podcast is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. Although Jamie is a licensed clinical social worker and guy as a professional life coach. The Information and opinions shared by the hosts and their guests are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment. The information on this show does not create a client therapist or coaching relationship and should not be taken as professional advice or guidance. Please consult with your physician or qualified health care provider regarding any medical or mental health conditions.